The President Trump Immigration Thread

[Timjoebillybob]

Wait. You're saying immigration judges serve at the 'whim' of the President? Like federal States Attorneys? Could get interesting !! I'm probably not saying it correctly, as to States attorneys/prosecutors. Maybe someone with more knowledge can correct me. ... Still, could get interesting. Does that one judge still reside over Hawaii?

Most (all?) federal judges can't be removed at a whim, they can die, retire, or be impeached. Same term of "good behavior/life" as SCOTUS Justices.

 

[Fargo]

Most (all?) federal judges can't be removed at a whim, they can die, retire, or be impeached. Same term of "good behavior/life" as SCOTUS Justices.

Immigration judges aren’t actual federal judges, they are executive branch hearing officers and do not have the same status or protection as an Article III judge. They are appointed by the Attorney General, who serves at the pleasure of the president.

I do not believe that judicial offices can lawfully exist outside of article III under our constitution, but obviously the feds disagree.

 

[BugI02]

If Trump is Correct, the number is vastly bigger than 20 million. You are talking about people who’s families have been recognized as American citizens going back multiple generations, including a whole bunch who have taken up on arms and laid down their lives for this country.

Fargo, I'm still having trouble processing this. Why would a change need to be retroactive and affect people already considered citizens

As an example, if the gov't outlawed abortions and imposed criminal penalties I don't believe that they would go back and charge people that already had one when the law was different. I thought that was not allowed. So I fail to see why a change in the conditions under which citizenship is automatically granted need affect anyone other than those denied going forward

 

[Fargo]

Fargo, I'm still having trouble processing this. Why would a change need to be retroactive and affect people already considered citizens

As an example, if the gov't outlawed abortions and imposed criminal penalties I don't believe that they would go back and charge people that already had one when the law was different. I thought that was not allowed. So I fail to see why a change in the conditions under which citizenship is automatically granted need affect anyone other than those denied going forward

An EO isn’t a new law. In this case it would be a declaration of what the executive branches interpretation/enforcement of the 14th Am. will be.

If that interpretation is correct, then all those “citizens” never were.

 

[Route 45]

An EO isn’t a new law. In this case it would be a declaration of what the executive branches interpretation/enforcement of the 14th Am. will be.

If that interpretation is correct, then all those “citizens” never were.

Wouldn't an executive order be effective from this point forward? Could language in the EO exclude those who are already citizens? I'm not really familiar with the scope of an executive order.

 

[T.Lex]

Wouldn't an executive order be effective from this point forward? Could language in the EO exclude those who are already citizens? I'm not really familiar with the scope of an executive order.

Obama's use of EO was retroactive in the sense that it would apply to people who previously entered illegally as kids.

The threatened use of EO for things like bumpstocks would effect all existing bumpstocks.

To Fargo's point, the Executive enforces laws. That enforcement can involve interpretation. An EO (in this context) basically says, "We're going to interpret this language in this way." Because of that, it can be applied retroactively (after considerable litigation, most likely).

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Immigration judges aren’t actual federal judges, they are executive branch hearing officers and do not have the same status or protection as an Article III judge. They are appointed by the Attorney General, who serves at the pleasure of the president.

I do not believe that judicial offices can lawfully exist outside of article III under our constitution, but obviously the feds disagree.

Ahhh okay, learn something new everyday. Although I agree with you on the article III thing.

 

[BugI02]

An EO isn’t a new law. In this case it would be a declaration of what the executive branches interpretation/enforcement of the 14th Am. will be.

If that interpretation is correct, then all those “citizens” never were.

Ahh, understanding dawns. Thanks for the previous reply, BTW. I guess because Obama seemed to be doing whatever he wanted with EOs I hadn't really made the connection that it was really just affecting how existing law was interpreted on things like DREAMers. Now I see I haven't extrapolated the consequences of the particular EO in question far enough, either

I hate that the system is being gamed, but not enough to ever consider mucking with the constitution - after all, thats why we fought so hard to get a majority of originalists

 

[Hawkeye]

So what do you actually do, as an armed landowner, when you encounter tresspassers (or Hondurans, in this scenerio)? What if they keep walking? Serious question; I don't know what's the proper response. And add women and children? I do know the proper response, if they're non-violent, but what do you do under these circumstances?

Seems like there used to some sort of organized citizens group doing this. Maybe 20 years ago? Think they were HQ’d in either Texas or SoCal. Think the “leader” got into some sort of legal trouble.

My recollection is that they were basically supposed to observe, report to authorities and maybe track.

I’ll see if I can find something on them later.


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[Hawkeye]

An EO isn’t a new law. In this case it would be a declaration of what the executive branches interpretation/enforcement of the 14th Am. will be.

If that interpretation is correct, then all those “citizens” never were.

Isn’t that already going on along the southern border area? Recall reading that some folks are having trouble getting passports issued or renewed due to some uncertainty around their birthplace?


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[Hawkeye]

Google “Minuteman Project” or “Chris Simcox”


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[Fargo]

Isn’t that already going on along the southern border area? Recall reading that some folks are having trouble getting passports issued or renewed due to some uncertainty around their birthplace?


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Kind of, but that is a question of fact, not law. Apparently there were some forged birth certificates etc.

The current question is over what the law means, not over where people were actually born.

 

[Fargo]

Ahh, understanding dawns. Thanks for the previous reply, BTW. I guess because Obama seemed to be doing whatever he wanted with EOs I hadn't really made the connection that it was really just affecting how existing law was interpreted on things like DREAMers. Now I see I haven't extrapolated the consequences of the particular EO in question far enough, either

I hate that the system is being gamed, but not enough to ever consider mucking with the constitution - after all, thats why we fought so hard to get a majority of originalists

Obama's programs were kind of two tiered. The first part was a directive to not prosecute/enforce immigration laws against people who met certain criteria. That would arguably fall within the scope of his authority.

The second part was that he started creating documents/legal statuses for them which had no basis in law. As I recall it was the second part that was repeatedly found illegal by the courts.

 

[Route 45]

Maybe the problem is that there are just too many Americans in America.

[video=youtube;SoT2vch2Vho]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoT2vch2Vho[/video]

 

[Kutnupe14]

Maybe the problem is that there are just too many Americans in America.

[video=youtube;SoT2vch2Vho]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoT2vch2Vho[/video]

The clip is 24 secs, there's no context, and it was posted today. I can't help but think that there's an agenda at play. Is she talking about Finland, the nation? The school? The town she lives in? Her D&D group? Is there a better source to see what is actually said, rather than be given a piece, and then extrapolating based on ones own biases or support?

 

[Dead Duck]

The clip is 24 secs, there's no context, and it was posted today. I can't help but think that there's an agenda at play. Is she talking about Finland, the nation? The school? The town she lives in? Her D&D group? Is there a better source to see what is actually said, rather than be given a piece, and then extrapolating based on ones own biases or support?

She's talking about the ocean.
There are too many FINS in the ocean.


It's like you do this on purpose.

 

[Kutnupe14]

She's talking about the ocean.
There are too many FINS in the ocean.


It's like you do this on purpose.

They list her with an onscreen graphic, as being from Helsinki University... could she have possibly been talking about the school, rather than the WHOLE nation? I'm not buying into something not explicitly said, when it's obvious that many things posted are agenda driven, and fact "lite."

 

[Dead Duck]

Maybe the problem is that there are just too many Americans in America.

[video=youtube;SoT2vch2Vho]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoT2vch2Vho[/video]

A race that intends to assimilate others into their collective. Sounds familiar.



Resistance Is Futile

 

[Route 45]

The clip is 24 secs, there's no context, and it was posted today. I can't help but think that there's an agenda at play. Is she talking about Finland, the nation? The school? The town she lives in? Her D&D group? Is there a better source to see what is actually said, rather than be given a piece, and then extrapolating based on ones own biases or support?

Since she mentions that the lack of diversity is a "solvable" problem, and says that more and more immigrants "coming here" is good for "society," I'm pretty sure that I can extrapolate that she is not talking about her carpool group.

 

[ghitch75]

when is he coming back

runner...