The OFFICIAL Trump/HRC/2016 General Election Thread...

[ArcadiaGP]

Would you say the converse of this is true? It's not Trump's job to get the down ballot candidates elected?

What is the role of the Republican party in getting it's members elected?

What is the role of each Republican party member in getting the party's nominees elected?

Nope. It's each candidates job to win. It's absolutely not the presidential nominee's place to sabotage people in his own party because they aren't a fan of him

 

[foszoe]

I'll answer this: No. (BTW, electing Trump isn't "what's best for this country" either.)

But, this is where the lack of consistent principles by many Trump supporters is revealed. If HRC getting elected is bad, getting HRC elected with a Dem majority in the legislative branch is worse. That's a principle. Heck, that's the primary principle driving me to vote this year.

And yet, many Trump supporters are publicly disavowing the only candidates standing in the way of the Dem/HRC majority. Is that principled? Is that what's best for the country?

Fair to ask INGO Trump supporters where they stand on the more local elections. Especially those claiming to act in a principled way.

I didn't follow this part.

The bolded portion I read as one conclusion followed by another conclusion using the first as a premise.
We agree that HRC getting elected is bad. One conclusion
We agree that HRC getting elected with a Dem majority in the legislative branch is worse. A second conclusion.

I do not see a principle referenced.

That is why I wrote the following:

In your first sentence I see conclusions not principles. That doesn't mean they are not present. I can agree with the first conclusion. I can agree with the second conclusion. I don't see where the first condition provides sufficiency for the second.

I think I followed this.

Here in Indiana, in the presidential context, the most important down ballot vote is for Senate. All of us in Indiana can vote in that race. To disavow Young, yet vote for Trump, is unprincipled, IMHO. At least, I can't think of a principled reason to support such a split.

I am open to being persuaded, though.

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves though. Has Young disavowed Trump? Have INGO Trump supporters suggested disavowing Todd Young? Has Trump commented on or disavowed Todd Young? If not i don't see the relevancy.

What I have seen is a reaction mostly again party leadership and the old guard of the GOP if you will. John McCain, Paul Ryan etc.

Yet, you retain the same principles for each election, right? What are your priorities?

I will also say that, as a practical matter, the way our federal system is arranged, that is a dangerous paradigm. Senate/congressional elections matter greatly as linked to the presidential election.

I look at each race as independent choice. Was that how you understood what I wrote? If so, then you can further explain why that is dangerous because I don't see it.

Just as clarification. The basic desires I have for each candidate don't change from race to race, but I am certainly not going to vote for an R if a D more closely represents what I believe to be the best choice. I would argue that is the more dangerous paradigm. If may be that more candidates I vote for have the same letter behind the name but that is simply an outcome of my choice and not an input to be considered in making the choice itself.

 

[foszoe]

Our county Republican chair left the party and started a Libertarian party in the county.

He gave up on the Republicans being small government.

Small government doesn't offer enough to the corrupt and power-hungry.

Welcome to Montgomery County

 

[foszoe]

Not only that, they're trying to delude us into thinking they'll stop hillary when they have done nothing to stop obama.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice... can't get fooled again.

If the Repubican party wanted to prove their value under Obama, then they should have set an agenda and passed legislation forcing Obama's hand and made him exercise his veto authority so the American people would know exactly where the Republican party stood on the issues. Sure it would have produced deadlock but we have that anyway.

What we don't have is a clear, consistent, principled Republican counter message to the Obama and now Clinton agendas demonstrated in the legislative process.

 

[BugI02]

I would hope Paul Ryan would do some housecleaning would this be true.

I would recommend against suspending respiration while awaiting that result

 

[foszoe]

Best post in this thread all day.

I found it a little self centered....

 

[BugI02]

Nope. It's each candidates job to win. It's absolutely not the presidential nominee's place to sabotage people in his own party because they aren't a fan of him

Is it his own party? I seem to recall you arguing that he was a stealth Democ Rat

Is it the place of people in 'his own party' to sabotage the up ballot candidate(s) because they aren't a fan of him?

Something Goose something something Gander

 

[foszoe]

The Republican party isn't 200 years old yet.

I think this might go to the heart of it.

Imagine we're both inspectors - you think it's a loss and want Trump Construction to raze and rebuild, I think your estimates are overblown and wanted Kasich Konstruction to remodel (think of Norm on This Old House).


Now I'm stuck - Trump is going to bulldoze this elegant 200 year old landmark, but Hillary wants to build another four floors onto the old timber frame! Either way it's coming down...

 

[bwframe]

?I Respect The Second Amendment, But?? Clinton?s Views On Gun Control Are Most Radical Ever ? Bearing Arms

...The Wikileaks release of emails this past Friday, buried by Mrs Clinton’s enablers in the mainstream media, shows that our August list was 100% accurate.

The batch of emails released by Wikileaks on October 7 includes one in which Hillary Clinton press secretary Brian Fallon explained that Clinton “would support…
...closing the gun show loophole by executive order.” ...

 

[foszoe]

So each candidate is in essence really an independent operator?

Should any one candidate sabotage any other candidate in the same party?

What is sabotage? Disagreement? Endorsing then non endorsing?

Nope. It's each candidates job to win. It's absolutely not the presidential nominee's place to sabotage people in his own party because they aren't a fan of him

 

[jbombelli]

Nope. It's each candidates job to win. It's absolutely not the presidential nominee's place to sabotage people in his own party because they aren't a fan of him

Oh but vice versa is okay? What goes around shouldn't come around?

 

[1DOWN4UP]

My brain hurts.

 

[Brad69]

The GOP is exploding as we speak.

HRC will eliminate opposition though executive order. (BHO set the tone for this with the phone and pen comments)

In history GWB will be the last GOP president.

The new government will have a name for the movement like the awakening or something along those lines.

Fourms like this will not exist it would be considered unsafe speech.

I know many believe this won't happen they are judging this on the past this is not normal.

Our enemies in the world will seize on this and who will come to help?

 

[T.Lex]

The house has a concrete foundation but it's termite infested.

The "termites" have names. Which ones should be eliminated? They come from districts and states and appointing authorities. Which ones would you get rid of?

Harry Reid? Not our decision. He keeps getting elected the same way Lugar was. And basically the same way HRC or Trump will be. Because the people want it.

Whether the rest of want them doesn't matter. We don't get a vote for them. Literally.

The congressional hearings with the FBI opened my eyes to just how badly things need fixing, but those people aren't going to peacefully leave no more than termites are going to go away by asking them. They need forcible booted to the curb.
...
It just has to do with how poorly government is set up to fix things when it's completely infested with corruption. Unless you're going to tell me congress has the authority to go person by person in government office, firing them, without getting roadblocked at every turn by the corrupt elements throwing buckets of money at people to save their behind.

See, this is the revealing part to me: the issue you have isn't with the people involved. It is the constitution. You have a problem with the constitution and how it is implemented.

The frustrations Trump rode to primary victory are the same generational frustrations with our system that have been exhibited from the beginning.

Ultimately, it has nothing to do with termites or infestation. As you said, it has to do with how the government is set up.

 

[T.Lex]

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves though. Has Young disavowed Trump? Have INGO Trump supporters suggested disavowing Todd Young? Has Trump commented on or disavowed Todd Young? If not i don't see the relevancy.

Your first 2 questions are irrelevant if the principle at issue is not empowering HRC. Trump supporters argue that non-Trump supporters are clandestinely (or explicitly) supporting HRC by not supporting Trump. For that principle to be consistently applied, a Trump supporter making that argument would be compelled to support every Republican.

What I have seen is a reaction mostly again party leadership and the old guard of the GOP if you will. John McCain, Paul Ryan etc.

Which, efforts to defeat them would create common cause with HRC, no?

I look at each race as independent choice. Was that how you understood what I wrote? If so, then you can further explain why that is dangerous because I don't see it.

Just as clarification. The basic desires I have for each candidate don't change from race to race, but I am certainly not going to vote for an R if a D more closely represents what I believe to be the best choice. I would argue that is the more dangerous paradigm. If may be that more candidates I vote for have the same letter behind the name but that is simply an outcome of my choice and not an input to be considered in making the choice itself.

So when voting for Senate, is a factor that you consider whether the person is of the same party as your vote for POTUS? Or of the same party as the person you expect to be elected POTUS?

 

[Expat]

WikiLeaks: Hillary Clinton Confidantes Mock Evangelicals and Conservative Catholics in Podesta Emails

 

[JettaKnight]

Oh but vice versa is okay? What goes around shouldn't come around?

There's a difference between, "we're done with you" and "I'm going to do everything I can to destroy you." Trump could take the high road and say, "I sorry for that loss of support, but I'll do just fine without the GOPe." Since many Trump supporters despise the GOPe, this breakup should be welcome.

But hey, why do that when the low road suits him so well.

 

[dusty88]

The more I think about Trump's behavior like the Twitter tirade, the more he scares me.

I've never seriously considered voting for him, but my "gun to head, Trump or Hillary, no value in martyrdom" was: Trump

Now I'm not so sure. Can you imagine our president behaving like that when someone offends them, particularly a foreign leader?



Well the more he f's up the more people look at Gary Johnson. And if the libertarians get over 5% they get matching funds next time. If we are still intact as a nation in 4 years.

This is insane.

 

[Tombs]

The more I think about Trump's behavior like the Twitter tirade, the more he scares me.

I've never seriously considered voting for him, but my "gun to head, Trump or Hillary, no value in martyrdom" was: Trump

Now I'm not so sure. Can you imagine our president behaving like that when someone offends them, particularly a foreign leader?



Well the more he f's up the more people look at Gary Johnson. And if the libertarians get over 5% they get matching funds next time. If we are still intact as a nation in 4 years.

This is insane.

After 4 years of hillary, so much of the government will be controlled by outside forces that there will be no way to take it back in any capacity. It's already close, just start reading up on defense contractors and various "charitable" foundations.

Unless we get someone in office willing to dismantle these things at all costs, we're going to become 1 gigantic corporation sold out to the highest bidder.

People usually don't like chemotherapy because it comes close to killing you, but it's far better than dying.

 

[printcraft]

Foreign leaders respect obama.... true story.