The Official Redbrush/WSSC IDPA Thread

[DustyDawg48]

Random thought this morning- I've been thinking about scoring. The IDPA HQ folks are checking out the Carolina Cup where I think they're using Practiscore. USPSA has used this for a while and they are starting to tweak it for IDPA. I'm pretty sure it will be used at Nationals this year.

Talking with some folks at the IL State Match, they said the biggest problem with using it is that the shooter doesn't get a "receipt" of the course when fired. It just all gets put in the timer and then sent over the air to the match scoring computer. In and of itself, that is cool and I'm sure some type of printer will come forth one day where a shooter finishes a course and goes back with the squad and gets his score.

Just kind of makes one wonder where technology is going to take shooting sports in the future. I wouldn't be surprised to one day see special targets that score upon bullet impact and automatic resets, just all kinds of stuff. At the indoor nats this year they had motion activated movers and I'm fairly certain the Indy State match last year had pneumatic resetting targets. Just push a botton and its done.

Of course, not all clubs are going to be able to get up to speed with practiscore and so forth. I've shot with a couple of clubs where the range doesn't have electricity. Still, just makes a guy wonder what they're going to come up with next.

There is no doubt that it is an exciting time for competitive shooting. You can still be in touch with the founders of the sport but see it evolve into something grand. You'll probably soon have the ability to shoot, see your score and sign it on an iPad. Good times!

 

[Grelber]

22 days to our next IDPA match, and heck, it might be raining again.

 

[DustyDawg48]

22 days to our next IDPA match, and heck, it might be raining again.

I swear if I miss another IDPA match I'm probably going to switch sports. I haven't shot in a match since April and it is getting to me! It killed me to hear last month's match was called...

 

[Exodus]

Using 115 grain plated round nose loaded at 4.3, 4.4, and 4.5 with col of 1.155. This is 9mm btw.

I have one book but didnt list 7625, my lee die papers listed it and did some online research. I think the range I was looking at said max of 4.7.

 

[sbcman]

Got my invite to nationals todayI had enough points to get the top squad picks. Might try to get on it with Jerry--although that might put too much awesomeness on one squad

 

[sbcman]

You'll probably soon have the ability to shoot, see your score and sign it on an iPad. Good times!

Now that's a good idea! Have the club wi-fi send it to your phone or whatever other gadget. Of course, I have none of that stuff- just a cheap Trac-fone that I leave in my truck.

Still, that would be the way to do it for most competitors- right to the phone. The Manchester boys already do that with scores if you want it.

 

[dgtk]

Got my invite to nationals todayI had enough points to get the top squad picks. Might try to get on it with Jerry--although that might put too much awesomeness on one squad

That's awesome, congrats!

Was a great day to go out to Pike County range. A little crowded since RB was hosting youth day but got some drills in and met a lot of new people.

 

[DustyDawg48]

Now that's a good idea! Have the club wi-fi send it to your phone or whatever other gadget. Of course, I have none of that stuff- just a cheap Trac-fone that I leave in my truck.

Still, that would be the way to do it for most competitors- right to the phone. The Manchester boys already do that with scores if you want it.

I am right there with you! Trac-Fone all the way!

 

[Kisada]

Well, I finally had some free time and it wasn't raining at the time and so I attempted to cast up my first batch of lead. I would say it was only a partial failure, as the bullets had good fill-out but kinda wrinkled up. From what I've read it seems my melt/mold wasn't warm enough, but I'm thinking maybe some of the 2-cycle oil I used to lube the molds might've leaked into the cavities. I went pretty sparingly, but guess it still was too much. I cleaned the cavities with alcohol for the next outing.

TJ or any other casters have some helpful insight?

 

[Exodus]

Motor oil? Smoke them and I would say yes mold too cold.

 

[sbcman]

Well, I finally had some free time and it wasn't raining at the time and so I attempted to cast up my first batch of lead. I would say it was only a partial failure, as the bullets had good fill-out but kinda wrinkled up. From what I've read it seems my melt/mold wasn't warm enough, but I'm thinking maybe some of the 2-cycle oil I used to lube the molds might've leaked into the cavities. I went pretty sparingly, but guess it still was too much. I cleaned the cavities with alcohol for the next outing.

TJ or any other casters have some helpful insight?

Glad to see you got goingYou'll want to get some bullet lube to lube the mold pins. Don't use alox (or motor oil), use a stick lube or pure beeswax for that process. When the mold gets hot this lube can leak into the cavities as well, but it will only be for one or two fillings. Get a butane lighter or candle and smoke the cavities black. Allow the mold to set on the furnace while the lead heats up and you'll be good to go. The mold won't be totally ready heatwise until about the tenth pour, then you'll be dropping perfect bullets.

As to the bullets themselves, just alox them and load them, they'll shoot fine. Your next problem will come when your lead and mold gets overheated and the bullets start to "frost." No problem then either, just lube and shoot. It's hard to go wrong with a cast bullet unless it dropped half a bullet or something.

 

[Exodus]

So I loaded up some more 9 with 7625. Went with 4.6 and 4.7 this time. The 4.6 was about 50/50 on functioning. The 4.7 ran the gun just fine. Thinking about loading some 4.8 and then sticking with that to mass produce just so that I don't have to worry about getting down to low if my powder measure has a poor drop.

 

[sbcman]

So I loaded up some more 9 with 7625. Went with 4.6 and 4.7 this time. The 4.6 was about 50/50 on functioning. The 4.7 ran the gun just fine. Thinking about loading some 4.8 and then sticking with that to mass produce just so that I don't have to worry about getting down to low if my powder measure has a poor drop.

Glad you got it figured out and sounds like you've got a good plan to me. I order reliability ahead of accuracy for games (I mean, we're shooting at an 8 inch center, so it shouldn't be a concern). Plus, whatever minimal recoil an extra tenth or two gains will be...well, minimal

 

[Grelber]

I order reliability ahead of accuracy for games (I mean, we're shooting at an 8 inch center, so it shouldn't be a concern).

Makes sense, but neurotic people aren't happy until they get accuracy too.

Speaking from experience, and also it seems like I read this note somewhere bout this guy with a wheel gun who was all perky about finding a load that kept the bullets close together.

My only point being that I don't want to load a lot of anything until the accuracy is as good as I can get it without messing up something else.

To date, I haven't found any magical recipes but I have found some that were way ugly. For example, my 40 likes 4.7 bullseye & 180 grain Bayou lead, problem is that this is a 180 pf load so it is more than you need for IPSC major and just silly for IDPA. When I drop the powder charge, the group size doubles or triples before I get to meaningful reduction in felt recoil, yuck. With 9's I never found meaningful difference usually but then I tried some internet reloads and accuracy was so bad that first I thought it was a me problem and then a gun problem and finally figured out that ammo can really screw things up.

 

[Grelber]

Oh, anybody know any details about the guy who shot himself in the leg with a 22 at RB a couple weeks back?

I don't need to know who but you can't help but want to know how just in case it could happen again. Rumor mill says it was a clean in and out in the leg and he will be fine.

 

[sbcman]

Makes sense, but neurotic people aren't happy until they get accuracy too.

Speaking from experience, and also it seems like I read this note somewhere bout this guy with a wheel gun who was all perky about finding a load that kept the bullets close together.

My only point being that I don't want to load a lot of anything until the accuracy is as good as I can get it without messing up something else.

To date, I haven't found any magical recipes but I have found some that were way ugly. For example, my 40 likes 4.7 bullseye & 180 grain Bayou lead, problem is that this is a 180 pf load so it is more than you need for IPSC major and just silly for IDPA. When I drop the powder charge, the group size doubles or triples before I get to meaningful reduction in felt recoil, yuck. With 9's I never found meaningful difference usually but then I tried some internet reloads and accuracy was so bad that first I thought it was a me problem and then a gun problem and finally figured out that ammo can really screw things up.

I hear what you're saying and I guess I would feel different if I had a gun that would group 2 or 3x depending on load. That would make a difference even on an 8 inch target at 30 yards. I have no gun that does that. But, I'm not as picky on accuracy as some. I have a friend who's into rifles that is satisfied with nothing less than sub-moa whereas I'm cool with a minute rifle or even a bit more. Nothing I do with a gun requires extreme accuracy. All my rifles and handguns will outshoot me with any load I've tried, so the accuracy department rests more on me than my load.

But I am happy when I can clover six rounds on a one inch paster, freestyle at 15 yards

Also, bear in mind that I have 6 shots and all of them must fire, so reliability is probably a bigger concern for me than others.

As to the dude that got shot, I've heard nothing about it. Sounds like something that would just really mess up your day at the range.

Edit: I've never really thought about the accuracy/reliability concept with a semi. Sounds contradictory, but all my revolvers are more accurate than any of my semis- it just hasn't been a concern for me. So, in the case of a bottom feeder, I might look to accuracy first where it is a concern, at least in my guns. Good things to think about.

 

[sbcman]

This little discussion brings up a question for everyone: what level of accuracy are you satisfied with in a handgun?

Me personally, I'm cool with a 3 inch group at 20 yards in game guns. I want it 2 or less at 30 in hunting handguns because the occasional longer shot does come up.

Just curious what folks think.

 

[Grelber]

Me personally, I'm cool with a 3 inch group at 20 yards in game guns.

Enos says you shouldn't settle for less than 2" at 50 in his book. That is way way way beyond my vision & trigger skill, but it is interesting that he can get that with competition loads & guns.

Trying out new loads Sunday at 20 yards from a rest (40 cal bottom feeder) the load I liked gave me a 2 3/8 10 shot group which is plenty good to make me happy. I think your 3" at 20 YD is a nice balance between not accurate enough for some folks and not worth worrying about.
An IDPA head is 6"x6", seems like the smaller steels and the plates on the death star are maybe 8" diameter, and distances are typically 15 yards or under, so the 3" at 20 seems pretty reasonable.

 

[DustyDawg48]

I'd say you are probably right on with the 3" at 20 yards. I've never really given much thought to how much more accuracy I could wring out of my gun just by tweeking my ammo. Since there are so many other variables like speed and grip that goes into it, I think you find a round that will do your 3" groups and call it a day.

 

[sbcman]

Enos says you shouldn't settle for less than 2" at 50 in his book. That is way way way beyond my vision & trigger skill, but it is interesting that he can get that with competition loads & guns.

Trying out new loads Sunday at 20 yards from a rest (40 cal bottom feeder) the load I liked gave me a 2 3/8 10 shot group which is plenty good to make me happy. I think your 3" at 20 YD is a nice balance between not accurate enough for some folks and not worth worrying about.
An IDPA head is 6"x6", seems like the smaller steels and the plates on the death star are maybe 8" diameter, and distances are typically 15 yards or under, so the 3" at 20 seems pretty reasonable.

Brian is a freak...and I mean that in a good way My 625s will do much better than 3 at 20 but my 9 and 45 semis get that level of accuracy with the loads I've tried through them. Of course, all of this is freehand and that plays a part. I could probably tighten things up with different loads but have never tried it.

I think another factor here is the games you're playing. The toughest shot I've had in IDPA was a small pepper popper at 30 yards. Nailed it on the first shot and was greatly relieved. So relieved that I missed a large popper at 12 yards on my first shot in the next target array As the book even says "occasional" shots out to 30 yards or so is alright. But, by the book, most of the game must be played under 15 yards (as mentioned). In USPSA you probably need to tweak the maximum accuracy you can as those types of shot are more commonplace, at least in the clubs I've been around. I've come across some pretty gamey shots in USPSA.