The Official Hot Rod Thread - Part 4: Burnouts for Distance

[Mounty09]

Oh yeah many of us are pretty well versed in the LS craze.
I've had my hands on plenty of SBF's over the years. The block will handle 700, but I'm not so sure the rotating assembly will live very long. I really do wish you luck though.

Do you have any experience playing with nitrous? It can carry a bit of a learning curve.
That learning curve often comes at the price of damaged parts. Trust me, I know lol

I have no experience with nitrous. My buddy who helps me tune the car does though. I plan to ease into it and hoping the progressive system helps.

 

[churchmouse]

It is much more common to see the LS guys making over 1000 on all stock engines. Go check out some no prep events and you will amazed on how common it is. Yeah they don't live as long as a built motor but for the cost you can get a ls for they don't care.

I only plan to make about 700. From the research I have done, this is pretty achievable.

Oh yes. I have acquaintances that have achieved these numbers with the LS but never saw a 351 get there.
One must understand I have had my hands inside several 700-1250 HP chevys but they were old school.
The LS is a superior piece due to the way the reciprocating assembly is secured in the block and the engineering of the block itself.

 

[churchmouse]

I have no experience with nitrous. My buddy who helps me tune the car does though. I plan to ease into it and hoping the progressive system helps.

The progressive system is a solid plus and won't hit the engine all at one time. I believe my issues were because I did not set my Ignition up to pull timing and the pistons just were not up to the initial hit.
At 100HP when the nitrous engaged off the RPM switch it was a good hit to the seat of the pants and the car just moved out. Trigger was set at 3600RPM.
With the 150 shot it blew through the tires and things went south very fast from there.
I had bought the short block from a friends Dad. 383 and supposed to have forged pistons. Nope they were cast. I was in a rush, so I bolted all my HotRod parts on it and did some street testing. All with the 100 HP jets.
It was a sniper system.
Me and the dad had a few serious words when I caught up to him. I hate a liar.

 

[thunderchicken]

I have no experience with nitrous. My buddy who helps me tune the car does though. I plan to ease into it and hoping the progressive system helps.

What kind of progressive system you plan to use? Plate system or fogger?
What ignition box you running?
Again no offense, but I've never known anyone to use a progressive for such a small amount of juice.

When we started playing with nitrous, we jumped in head first with 2 kits. Had 1 kit on WOT switch and the 2nd kit was on a timer that would have it kick on just as it passed the 60ft timer. Back then we pretty much stuck to just a 4 jet spread. We thought we were being conservative with about 300-350 shot (total). Back then we had solid copper head gaskets and had the heads & block cut for O rings and never could get that thing to stay sealed up. We bent some valves and crushed some ring lands and put holes in a few pistons. But didn't really know how to optimize what we had.
Study on spark plug reading, and buy a good quality spark plug magnifier/light. Don't go cheap on this get one that's like the Dr uses to look in your ears. You have to be able to clearly see the colors on the ground strap and to look for piston boogers down on the base of the porcelain. Don't go cheap on a fuel pressure guage to flow the system with either. It has to be repeatable

 

[churchmouse]

What kind of progressive system you plan to use? Plate system or fogger?
What ignition box you running?
Again no offense, but I've never known anyone to use a progressive for such a small amount of juice.

When we started playing with nitrous, we jumped in head first with 2 kits. Had 1 kit on WOT switch and the 2nd kit was on a timer that would have it kick on just as it passed the 60ft timer. Back then we pretty much stuck to just a 4 jet spread. We thought we were being conservative with about 300-350 shot (total). Back then we had solid copper head gaskets and had the heads & block cut for O rings and never could get that thing to stay sealed up. We bent some valves and crushed some ring lands and put holes in a few pistons. But didn't really know how to optimize what we had.
Study on spark plug reading, and buy a good quality spark plug magnifier/light. Don't go cheap on this get one that's like the Dr uses to look in your ears. You have to be able to clearly see the colors on the ground strap and to look for piston boogers down on the base of the porcelain. Don't go cheap on a fuel pressure guage to flow the system with either. It has to be repeatable

I always use a stand alone (Nitrous only) fuel system.
5 gal cell with serious fuel in it. A Holley pump just for the nitrous and a separate fuel line all the way.
Some folks said I did not need that but after Barfing an engine I was doing it my way.

The engine I just built for the 64 SS project had 2 plate systems under the Holley injection. 1st one on an RPM switch and the 2nd was a scramble button. Both wired through the management module and would drop timing when triggered.

 

[thunderchicken]

I always use a stand alone (Nitrous only) fuel system.
5 gal cell with serious fuel in it. A Holley pump just for the nitrous and a separate fuel line all the way.
Some folks said I did not need that but after Barfing an engine I was doing it my way.

The engine I just built for the 64 SS project had 2 plate systems under the Holley injection. 1st one on an RPM switch and the 2nd was a scramble button. Both wired through the management module and would drop timing when triggered.

We've always run a fogger (ran 2 until the rules changed and limited us to just 1 kit). We only ran the one fuel cell and the one pump (Magnafuel prostar 500) that is more than capable of handling both. The fuel to the fogger was run on it's own regulators. We started out with Magnafuel regulators but for whatever reason they just didn't seem to hold consistent pressure on the nitrous system. At the recommendation of Steve Johnson (owns Induction Solutions) we switched to a Holley regulator and it has always been spot on.
I know the about the whole world is using a digital box now, but we have always stuck with the old 7AL3 box with timing chips to pull the desired amount of timing out.
When we went to running just the one big kit, that's when we went to a progressive controller. Started out with the Edelbrock unit but didn't stick with it very long before we went to an NLR controller. It allows you actually ramp it it in/out over the course of the run.
There are guys now that run as much at 20 jet spreads. Some have even played with water injection to help lower cylinder temps. It is definitely a science.

Many people misunderstand how a progressive really works. They use references in percentages and people think ok so a 100 shot at 50% would be like adding a 50hp shot. But that is not at all how they work.
The percentage is in reference to the percentage of time the solenoids are open between set time increments.

 

[Mounty09]

What kind of progressive system you plan to use? Plate system or fogger?
What ignition box you running?
Again no offense, but I've never known anyone to use a progressive for such a small amount of juice.

When we started playing with nitrous, we jumped in head first with 2 kits. Had 1 kit on WOT switch and the 2nd kit was on a timer that would have it kick on just as it passed the 60ft timer. Back then we pretty much stuck to just a 4 jet spread. We thought we were being conservative with about 300-350 shot (total). Back then we had solid copper head gaskets and had the heads & block cut for O rings and never could get that thing to stay sealed up. We bent some valves and crushed some ring lands and put holes in a few pistons. But didn't really know how to optimize what we had.
Study on spark plug reading, and buy a good quality spark plug magnifier/light. Don't go cheap on this get one that's like the Dr uses to look in your ears. You have to be able to clearly see the colors on the ground strap and to look for piston boogers down on the base of the porcelain. Don't go cheap on a fuel pressure guage to flow the system with either. It has to be repeatable

It will all be controlled with Holley Terminator X. I am spraying a dry shot through a throttle body plate. Terminator X will add fuel, 1000cc injectors. No ignition box, LS coils controlled with the terminator X.

The only extra cost to run progressive with Terminator X is a $70 solid state relay that I thought would be worth it. The tune will add the fuel, remove timing and ramp the duty cycle on the solenoid. It is really pretty impressive what this cheap ecu and wire harness can do.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Big block and a turbo 400. I don’t hate it.

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[Jaybird1980]

Big block and a turbo 400. I don’t hate it.

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Could go roadkill style with it. I'd rock it.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Could go roadkill style with it. I'd rock it.

Match my avatar pic

 

[jeffsqartan]

The trans is a ford 4r70w. I did what is called a Jmod which is very common. Drilling out a few holes on the plate and removing some springs. This trans should be more than capable to handle the power I am throwing at it but I don't know if mine is since it I'm sure has over 100k miles.

What are you running for an engine and ecu setup? Looking at a 4r70w to put behind my 351.

Edit - rofl, I got through the couple pages and have a better understanding of your setup now lol. Why did you go with the X and not the X Max? What are you controlling the trans with?

 

[jeffsqartan]

Sounds to me like you should consider having someone actually go through and freshen up that transmission before you go abusing it.
Wait a minute, let me get this straight. You are abusing junk yard transmissions and decided to buy a. 3500 stall converter and are adding nitrous to the mix?
No offense meant, but how many miles or how old is the engine? Have you thought this through? I would be worried that 100k mile transmission likely won't hold up with the higher stall and spray. How much spray?

My understanding is that the 4r70w transmissions are pretty stout. The one I pulled from that Mountaineer is going to be tested for sure. My plan is to test it in pure stock form, do a mild build, and full build. I want to know what fails and when.

 

[d.kaufman]

My understanding is that the 4r70w transmissions are pretty stout. The one I pulled from that Mountaineer is going to be tested for sure. My plan is to test it in pure stock form, do a mild build, and full build. I want to know what fails and when.

The 4r70w has a few weak links. Direct drum will strip out where direct drive shaft splines.. Forward drum has a tendency to break where the snap ring that retains the clutches rides. If it's newer the separator plate for the valve body can crack. The intermediate sprag retainer has a tendency to come off from the centrifugal force. Reverse band can break the apply lug off

All these issues are easily correctable

 

[thunderchicken]

My understanding is that the 4r70w transmissions are pretty stout. The one I pulled from that Mountaineer is going to be tested for sure. My plan is to test it in pure stock form, do a mild build, and full build. I want to know what fails and when.

Maybe so when they are fresh or maybe upgraded with better than stock parts.
I wouldn't count on one lasting very long at all with 100+k miles on it and with a 3500 stall converter and being launched hard.

 

[thunderchicken]

The 4r70w has a few weak links. Direct drum will strip out where direct drive shaft splines.. Forward drum has a tendency to break where the snap ring that retains the clutches rides. If it's newer the separator plate for the valve body can crack. The intermediate sprag retainer has a tendency to come off from the centrifugal force. Reverse band can break the apply lug off

All these issues are easily correctable

He clearly know more about their internals than I do. I have admitted before, I am not a transmission man.

 

[Mounty09]

What are you running for an engine and ecu setup? Looking at a 4r70w to put behind my 351.

Edit - rofl, I got through the couple pages and have a better understanding of your setup now lol. Why did you go with the X and not the X Max? What are you controlling the trans with?

Sorry I did go with the X Max and I am using it to control the trans. My first 4r70w was great. Had very firm shifts. I had shift point kind of wacky and when I let my buddy drive it he got into a part of the map I hadn't been and it did some weird things. There were teeth in the pan.

I know they can be pretty stout and honestly think in stock form it will be enough for me. I had a 1997 Mountaineer with one that my dad bought new and I started driving when I turned 16. Sold that Mountaineer with 235k and the trans never missed a beat!

 

[Mounty09]

My understanding is that the 4r70w transmissions are pretty stout. The one I pulled from that Mountaineer is going to be tested for sure. My plan is to test it in pure stock form, do a mild build, and full build. I want to know what fails and when.

What are you putting the 351 and 4r70w in? If you are close to the fishers area and want to checkout my setup sometime let me know.

I have considered doing a power glide or a th400 but love crusing at 75mph in over drive. My wife also drives the car and I don't want to have her deal with a mvb.

 

[thunderchicken]

What are you putting the 351 and 4r70w in? If you are close to the fishers area and want to checkout my setup sometime let me know.

I have considered doing a power glide or a th400 but love crusing at 75mph in over drive. My wife also drives the car and I don't want to have her deal with a mvb.

I think we need to see some pictures of your set up

 

[Mounty09]

The wiring isn't the best as I don't have much patience for it. The Holley harness is pretty nice but some of the splicing and routing could have been done better. I'm just proud to say I have done it all myself.

 

[thunderchicken]

The wiring isn't the best as I don't have much patience for it. The Holley harness is pretty nice but some of the splicing and routing could have been done better. I'm just proud to say I have done it all myself.
View attachment 195406View attachment 195407View attachment 195410View attachment 195411View attachment 195409

Not badly put together.