The Official Hot Rod Thread - Part 2: No Replacement For Displacement

[thunderchicken]

When I took people out in my 65 Biscayne the look of raw fear was well worth the gallon of racing fuel we burned in a short roll.
Half of this was the insane metallic symphony of a 388 CI small block chevy stroker nailing 7k i 1st/2nd. A mechanical roller motor with a full exhaust is sweet sweet music to me.

The other half was a serious John Force burn out....back up in the tracks.....engage the launch electronics and put it on the converter with the trans brake. Most people have zero idea what is about to happen when the engine is released off the brake at full song.

Ahh the look when someone gets their first real nose full of tire smoke and then gets tossed back into the seat when the trans brake releases. Add in the rumble of a well built engine and they get hooked. It's one of those experiences you just have to experience to fully understand

 

[churchmouse]

Ahh the look when someone gets their first real nose full of tire smoke and then gets tossed back into the seat when the trans brake releases. Add in the rumble of a well built engine and they get hooked. It's one of those experiences you just have to experience to fully understand

The eyes come wide open when the engine comes off the rev limiter when the button is released and they are pinned.
Right north of 6K in low gear the mouth comes open and the brake on the passenger side floor is tested to no avail.
Just north of 7K the noid snaps the lever into "2" and it all starts again.
I have seen butts come up out of the seat as they push on the floor and the seat back bracing for what ever is coming next. Eyes wide as golf balls.
Sometimes they even squeal.

I love it.

 

[halfmileharry]

Speaking of racing fuels... I've been using the "standard" 110 octane rating that's good up to 13:1. My comp ratio is very close to the 13 mark now. I'm not going to tone it down as I MIGHT give it a one night weekend ride down the southside on "show night" on 31.
What fuel are you running? Sealed fuel drums sealed with nitrogen (I think) aren't cheap and are coming off the east coast.

 

[churchmouse]

Speaking of racing fuels... I've been using the "standard" 110 octane rating that's good up to 13:1. My comp ratio is very close to the 13 mark now. I'm not going to tone it down as I MIGHT give it a one night weekend ride down the southside on "show night" on 31.
What fuel are you running? Sealed fuel drums sealed with nitrogen (I think) aren't cheap and are coming off the east coast.

I have not had to buy any for a good long while.
Most likely I will just get a drum of Cam 2 and set my mix accordingly. 11.2 is not that much of a stretch.

 

[halfmileharry]

I have not had to buy any for a good long while.
Most likely I will just get a drum of Cam 2 and set my mix accordingly. 11.2 is not that much of a stretch.

I've stuck with the Sunoco race fuels for years with no problems. I ran AVgas for a while but it's worse than Super Shell for deposits so I went back to the Sunoco Standard Racing fuel.
I'm seriously thinking of computerizing this motor but I don't know about unleaded racing fuels. I don't know anything about the stuff and I need some "hands on" input before I even consider a change like that.
The computer controlled motors can churn some real power.

 

[churchmouse]

I've stuck with the Sunoco race fuels for years with no problems. I ran AVgas for a while but it's worse than Super Shell for deposits so I went back to the Sunoco Standard Racing fuel.
I'm seriously thinking of computerizing this motor but I don't know about unleaded racing fuels. I don't know anything about the stuff and I need some "hands on" input before I even consider a change like that.
The computer controlled motors can churn some real power.

But they run 02 sensors. The ones I am familiar with will not live with leaded fuel. Have they advanced the tech on these.

 

[thunderchicken]

Speaking of racing fuels... I've been using the "standard" 110 octane rating that's good up to 13:1. My comp ratio is very close to the 13 mark now. I'm not going to tone it down as I MIGHT give it a one night weekend ride down the southside on "show night" on 31.
What fuel are you running? Sealed fuel drums sealed with nitrogen (I think) aren't cheap and are coming off the east coast.

We're running @ 14.5:1 compression and we strictly run VP racing fuels. Kinfa depends if you are running any power adders which fuelbis best. If you are running a NA combo then I would recommend VP's Q16. It's desigmed for NA, high compression but just keep in mind its oxygenated so you will need to fatten the tune up and it will evaporate faster than most fuels.
What kinf of combo is it?

 

[halfmileharry]

But they run 02 sensors. The ones I am familiar with will not live with leaded fuel. Have they advanced the tech on these.

They're making unleaded racing fuel for the sensors now. I don't know anything about it other than the computer motors take a lot of the tuning guess work out of the equation.
The new Dominator Carbs are set up with the computer sensors and feed plugs now. They still offer the manual Dominators I'm used to running.
I'm not trying to be a pro operation but since I do almost everything myself I cut a lot of costs out. Pretty much like you do. We come from the same drain pan.

 

[churchmouse]

We're running @ 14.5:1 compression and we strictly run VP racing fuels. Kinfa depends if you are running any power adders which fuelbis best. If you are running a NA combo then I would recommend VP's Q16. It's desigmed for NA, high compression but just keep in mind its oxygenated so you will need to fatten the tune up and it will evaporate faster than most fuels.
What kinf of combo is it?

We ran the VP brand when I built the roller motor for the Camaro. Not 14.5 like you guys but in the 13 range. We did have to step up the program with the jetting and it was more touchy with timing and weather changes. The car was fast but it was work chasing the weather. Pulling the timing back just a bit, dropping the jetting back and going to Cam 2 just made everything easier. Not sure why this was. When the air went north it was not a scramble to chase the tune. When it went mine shaft it was easy to stay on track. Being a bracket racer we were looking to be consistent. My son drove that car and he was not one to play the finish line. He dialed what he felt it would run in conditions and went balls out all the way down. Made him tough to race.
Truth is we were faster than we were legal anyway so pulling some teeth was not an issue.

 

[halfmileharry]

Ahh the look when someone gets their first real nose full of tire smoke and then gets tossed back into the seat when the trans brake releases. Add in the rumble of a well built engine and they get hooked. It's one of those experiences you just have to experience to fully understand

That happened to me when I was probably 10 years old. I never got over it. I never want to.

 

[thunderchicken]

We ran the VP brand when I built the roller motor for the Camaro. Not 14.5 like you guys but in the 13 range. We did have to step up the program with the jetting and it was more touchy with timing and weather changes. The car was fast but it was work chasing the weather. Pulling the timing back just a bit, dropping the jetting back and going to Cam 2 just made everything easier. Not sure why this was. When the air went north it was not a scramble to chase the tune. When it went mine shaft it was easy to stay on track. Being a bracket racer we were looking to be consistent. My son drove that car and he was not one to play the finish line. He dialed what he felt it would run in conditions and went balls out all the way down. Made him tough to race.
Truth is we were faster than we were legal anyway so pulling some teeth was not an issue.

I can understand, we're at 14.5:1 but keep in mind it's a nitrous engine so to an extent we create our own atmosphere. We mostly either add or take away a 1/4lb of fuel pressure, a degree or two of timing or ramp the power in differently with the nitrous controller. We currently run VP's C23 but in the past we ran C16. Really only switched for a little more octane, and because it works better for the amount af spary we are using

 

[churchmouse]

I can understand, we're at 14.5:1 but keep in mind it's a nitrous engine so to an extent we create our own atmosphere. We mostly either add or take away a 1/4lb of fuel pressure, a degree or two of timing or ramp the power in differently with the nitrous controller. We currently run VP's C23 but in the past we ran C16. Really only switched for a little more octane, and because it works better for the amount af spary we are using

In this you make sense. Yes you are in control right up until you aren't.....

I have ran nitrous on several set ups but never relied on it in competition at the track. I have used it in Testing just to see what it could do. Also for that really nice low ET slip. A man must know his limits and mine are set by my bank account.
I can not afford the inevitable mistakes I would make seeking power. It is my drug.

The kit I have for my car is simple and hard to screw up. It will be mainly for those Mustang/Camaro driving youngsters that want to embarrass this old fat guy cruising in his 64. Or for that odd rolling burn out to show my ass.....

 

[thunderchicken]

In this you make sense. Yes you are in control right up until you aren't.....

I have ran nitrous on several set ups but never relied on it in competition at the track. I have used it in Testing just to see what it could do. Also for that really nice low ET slip. A man must know his limits and mine are set by my bank account.
I can not afford the inevitable mistakes I would make seeking power. It is my drug.

The kit I have for my car is simple and hard to screw up. It will be mainly for those Mustang/Camaro driving youngsters that want to embarrass this old fat guy cruising in his 64. Or for that odd rolling burn out to show my ass.....

I can relate to that, thankfully we have had some really good people with much more knowledge than us to guide us along the way with the nitrous. Early on we hurt some serious parts. With our tune ups we tend to stay just a little on the more conservative side. We surrounded ourselves with an engine builder, nitrous system supplier that have always been just a phone call away. It's like everything else, find the best, most qualified person you can and learn from them.

 

[churchmouse]

I can relate to that, thankfully we have had some really good people with much more knowledge than us to guide us along the way with the nitrous. Early on we hurt some serious parts. With our tune ups we tend to stay just a little on the more conservative side. We surrounded ourselves with an engine builder, nitrous system supplier that have always been just a phone call away. It's like everything else, find the best, most qualified person you can and learn from them.

Bingo.
The simple plate systems I have ran require a mere 3.5#s of fuel pressure to achieve the listed HP levels of gain with a given jet.
Having (and buying) lunch with a couple of local Guru's on street tunes for the juice netted me some really great info.
I run a separate 3 gallon cell for the system with its own fuel pump. I can regulate it as I wish. A 150 HP rated plate system is very capable of 200 plus is you turn up the fuel and jet accordingly. You are only limited by the plate orifices.
The system I have for the Impala is a simple Sniper plate that is rated at 150HP delivery. It is capable of the 200 HP levels with enough fuel. I am still juggling this in my mind.
Taking a lunch with another (smarter than I am) friend we come up with a figure of just south of 500 ponys on my engine as it is being built. He has a lot of dyno operating time in his folder and can rattle off numbers pretty reliably if he has all the info. He doubts the 585 that the engine pulled originally. He states that guys Dyno (no longer around) was not reliable. I tend to believe him.

So, revised to 480 ponys and a 150 HP plate in a 4200 pound full size car with a 3.73 gear. That should open up anyone's eyes on the street.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Bingo.
The simple plate systems I have ran require a mere 3.5#s of fuel pressure to achieve the listed HP levels of gain with a given jet.
Having (and buying) lunch with a couple of local Guru's on street tunes for the juice netted me some really great info.
I run a separate 3 gallon cell for the system with its own fuel pump. I can regulate it as I wish. A 150 HP rated plate system is very capable of 200 plus is you turn up the fuel and jet accordingly. You are only limited by the plate orifices.
The system I have for the Impala is a simple Sniper plate that is rated at 150HP delivery. It is capable of the 200 HP levels with enough fuel. I am still juggling this in my mind.
Taking a lunch with another (smarter than I am) friend we come up with a figure of just south of 500 ponys on my engine as it is being built. He has a lot of dyno operating time in his folder and can rattle off numbers pretty reliably if he has all the info. He doubts the 585 that the engine pulled originally. He states that guys Dyno (no longer around) was not reliable. I tend to believe him.

So, revised to 480 ponys and a 150 HP plate in a 4200 pound full size car with a 3.73 gear. That should open up anyone's eyes on the street.

The calculator I use shows potential 11s with that power-to-weight

 

[thunderchicken]

Bingo.
The simple plate systems I have ran require a mere 3.5#s of fuel pressure to achieve the listed HP levels of gain with a given jet.
Having (and buying) lunch with a couple of local Guru's on street tunes for the juice netted me some really great info.
I run a separate 3 gallon cell for the system with its own fuel pump. I can regulate it as I wish. A 150 HP rated plate system is very capable of 200 plus is you turn up the fuel and jet accordingly. You are only limited by the plate orifices.
The system I have for the Impala is a simple Sniper plate that is rated at 150HP delivery. It is capable of the 200 HP levels with enough fuel. I am still juggling this in my mind.
Taking a lunch with another (smarter than I am) friend we come up with a figure of just south of 500 ponys on my engine as it is being built. He has a lot of dyno operating time in his folder and can rattle off numbers pretty reliably if he has all the info. He doubts the 585 that the engine pulled originally. He states that guys Dyno (no longer around) was not reliable. I tend to believe him.

So, revised to 480 ponys and a 150 HP plate in a 4200 pound full size car with a 3.73 gear. That should open up anyone's eyes on the street.

Yeah that should still open eyes and hurt some feelings too

 

[churchmouse]

The calculator I use shows potential 11s with that power-to-weight

I was just guessing it would run high 11's and with a 4.10 and proper tires mid 11's

 

[churchmouse]

OK....decision time.

I am close to picking a manifold. I pulled out the Wiend Stealth that I have ran on street small blocks. Cleaned it up in the blast cabinet and set it on the engine.
It would be far more streetable than my other in hand option. Dual plane mid-range to probably 6500 before it starts to choke.
I have a 1/2" fiber spacer and the 1/2" Nitrous plate (I believe it is 1/2") so that will add some balls on top. Engine will turn up an honest 7K.

Or the Holley Strip Dominator that was on the engine when I was going to go racing. It is a balls out out plenum single plane Air Gap. Long tall runners. I can see it being a pain in the butt on a hot day.
Pic is right after I pulled it out of mothballs.

 

[halfmileharry]

Chevrolet Performance U.S. Nationals | NHRA

 

[thunderchicken]

OK....decision time.

I am close to picking a manifold. I pulled out the Wiend Stealth that I have ran on street small blocks. Cleaned it up in the blast cabinet and set it on the engine.
It would be far more streetable than my other in hand option. Dual plane mid-range to probably 6500 before it starts to choke.
I have a 1/2" fiber spacer and the 1/2" Nitrous plate (I believe it is 1/2") so that will add some balls on top. Engine will turn up an honest 7K.

Or the Holley Strip Dominator that was on the engine when I was going to go racing. It is a balls out out plenum single plane Air Gap. Long tall runners. I can see it being a pain in the butt on a hot day.
Pic is right after I pulled it out of mothballs.

Well what size carb are you going to run?
The taller, longer runners will allow for more air volume inside the intake so you could probably get away with a bigger carb. IF I am thinking correctly the longer runners will also allow the air flow to have more velocity which will allow it to make more power. If you are going to mostly be cruising with it and dust off the occasional wanna be player, I don't think it would hurt anything to run the taller intake. Sure the flatter intake will be a bit more mild mannered but with tighter radius runners it won't flow as well, and if she will spin 7k it will he starting to nose over as it passes 6500.
On a side note, I would consider researching a super sucker spacer instead of the fiber. I know 2 engine builders that claim 15-20hp gains just by switching them out.