The Nuclear Iran Situation

[Liberty1916]

The only signal sent to NK is that we had a president who was apparently born with his brain up his ass and sh*t it out followed by one who is disinclined to continue with an absolutely worthless nonbinding agreement.

Trump had the wisdom to see that the Iran deal was more or less the exact same kind of garbage deal that Clinton made with NK in the 90's and we can see where that went.

Sadly though, I think our previous America-hating President knew exactly where the deal would lead when he made it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The only signal sent to NK is that we had a president who was apparently born with his brain up his ass and sh*t it out followed by one who is disinclined to continue with an absolutely worthless nonbinding agreement.

You are clear that we aren't the only nation that signed on to this deal right? The signatories being: The United States, Iran, France, China, the European Union, Germany, Russia, UK. So were the leaders (from the western nations) all similarly stupid? Maddis and Tillerson, who both think the US should stay in this deal, are the idiots too? I honest don't think Trump has the mind to negotiate this situation successfully. Heck I don't think he has the mind to govern this nation effectively. That's an opinion. I may be wrong. I hope I'm wrong, I really do, because I think Trump is playing a dangerous game that he really doesn't understand.

 

[KittySlayer]

You are clear that we aren't the only nation that signed on to this deal right? The signatories being: The United States, Iran, France, China, the European Union, Germany, Russia, UK.

But unlike all those other countries ours requires treaties to be approved by the legislative branch. Had this treaty been sent to the Senate like it should have been this would not be an issue today.

Does anyone really believe that Iran is not actively continuing its quest to develop a nuclear weapon to launch at Israel?

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I may be wrong. I hope I'm wrong,I really do.

I hope so too, but I'm also afraid you might not be.

 

[BugI02]

Trump had the wisdom to see that the Iran deal was more or less the exact same kind of garbage deal that Clinton made with NK in the 90's and we can see where that went.

Sadly though, I think our previous America-hating President knew exactly where the deal would lead when he made it.

Agreed. BHO not exactly a friend of Israel, either. Europe is in a dither, asserting that the JCPOA agreement is in the EU's best interest. Of course it is, it allows EU corporations to trade with Iran again and make money knowing that they will never have to be the ones to deal with the future consequences

 

[BugI02]

You are clear that we aren't the only nation that signed on to this deal right? The signatories being: The United States, Iran, France, China, the European Union, Germany, Russia, UK. So were the leaders (from the western nations) all similarly stupid? Maddis and Tillerson, who both think the US should stay in this deal, are the idiots too? I honest don't think Trump has the mind to negotiate this situation successfully. Heck I don't think he has the mind to govern this nation effectively. That's an opinion. I may be wrong. I hope I'm wrong, I really do, because I think Trump is playing a dangerous game that he really doesn't understand.

Or could it be, in response to the limited maneuvering room Trump has on NK, he wants to get out ahead of the Iran problem - which he (and many other people) believe will lead to the same Rubicon we are at now with NK

Secretary Mattis could just as easily be against withdrawal because he is doing his job and thinking strategically as a war fighter. He may be just as convinced as Trump that we will eventually have to put the Ayatollahs in their place (or allow Israel to slip the lead and do it for us) and just feels we should only take on one crazy regime bent on war at a time

Same with Tillerson; his job is to try to accomplish American ends with diplomacy, but sometimes diplomats fail to keep in mind that talking about US goals at some point no longer contributes anything to achieving them

I do not think you are or can give consideration to how far the countdown clocks to war with both NK and Iran had run down by the time Trump took office. Perhaps you truly believe that allowing NK to develop a reliable long range nuclear delivery system will suddenly transform them into a rational counterpart in a MAD sort of stalemate. I do not

And where Iran is concerned, I think the only breathing room for us would be they likely would be unable to resist using a nuclear weapon on Israel for enough time to develop and test a delivery system capable of reaching us. This might contribute to Israel's much less sanguine view of the agreement - they will be the first to pay the consequences. Both regimes are also open to sharing technology, and possibly the weapons themselves, with proxies and non-state actors which will only further complicate deterrence

Do you seriously think that if Iran allowed/enabled Hezbollah to detonate a nuclear weapon within Israel, that any return strike would not be subject to bleeding heart cries about all the 'innocent' Iranians that would be killed
These regimes continue to cynically use their own populace as human shields

 

[IndyDave1776]

You are clear that we aren't the only nation that signed on to this deal right? The signatories being: The United States, Iran, France, China, the European Union, Germany, Russia, UK. So were the leaders (from the western nations) all similarly stupid? Maddis and Tillerson, who both think the US should stay in this deal, are the idiots too? I honest don't think Trump has the mind to negotiate this situation successfully. Heck I don't think he has the mind to govern this nation effectively. That's an opinion. I may be wrong. I hope I'm wrong, I really do, because I think Trump is playing a dangerous game that he really doesn't understand.

Let's see...

Of course Iran is on board with an agreement that gave them pretty much everything they wanted including tons of cash.

France, Germany, and the UK, along with the remainder of the EU have been engaging in self-destructive policies for a very long time, so I can't call their participation much of an endorsement.

Russia and China are profiting from Iran's nuclear program, so hell yes they are on board with it.

As for Trump, how can you criticize how he runs the country when most everyone else in government represents the swamp and is doing everything possible to sabotage anything he tries to do. I would at least like to see him actually do something without being derailed by both parties in congress, hostile swamp monsters in the Executive Branch, and judges who need executed for treason.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Or could it be, in response to the limited maneuvering room Trump has on NK, he wants to get out ahead of the Iran problem - which he (and many other people) believe will lead to the same Rubicon we are at now with NK

Secretary Mattis could just as easily be against withdrawal because he is doing his job and thinking strategically as a war fighter. He may be just as convinced as Trump that we will eventually have to put the Ayatollahs in their place (or allow Israel to slip the lead and do it for us) and just feels we should only take on one crazy regime bent on war at a time

Same with Tillerson; his job is to try to accomplish American ends with diplomacy, but sometimes diplomats fail to keep in mind that talking about US goals at some point no longer contributes anything to achieving them

I do not think you are or can give consideration to how far the countdown clocks to war with both NK and Iran had run down by the time Trump took office. Perhaps you truly believe that allowing NK to develop a reliable long range nuclear delivery system will suddenly transform them into a rational counterpart in a MAD sort of stalemate. I do not

And where Iran is concerned, I think the only breathing room for us would be they likely would be unable to resist using a nuclear weapon on Israel for enough time to develop and test a delivery system capable of reaching us. This might contribute to Israel's much less sanguine view of the agreement - they will be the first to pay the consequences. Both regimes are also open to sharing technology, and possibly the weapons themselves, with proxies and non-state actors which will only further complicate deterrence

Do you seriously think that if Iran allowed/enabled Hezbollah to detonate a nuclear weapon within Israel, that any return strike would not be subject to bleeding heart cries about all the 'innocent' Iranians that would be killed
These regimes continue to cynically use their own populace as human shields

 

[Kutnupe14]

Let's see...

Of course Iran is on board with an agreement that gave them pretty much everything they wanted including tons of cash.

France, Germany, and the UK, along with the remainder of the EU have been engaging in self-destructive policies for a very long time, so I can't call their participation much of an endorsement.

Russia and China are profiting from Iran's nuclear program, so hell yes they are on board with it.

As for Trump, how can you criticize how he runs the country when most everyone else in government represents the swamp and is doing everything possible to sabotage anything he tries to do. I would at least like to see him actually do something without being derailed by both parties in congress, hostile swamp monsters in the Executive Branch, and judges who need executed for treason.

So why do Mattis and Tillerson say that it is the best that the US stay in the deal. And if the deal is the worst the US has ever made (which Trump says) why not decertify it, and withdraw? That doesn't make any sense. The worst deal EVER, and you don't leave it, but you punt it to Congress for them to deal with. It's truly amazing how Trump isn't considered swamp, and how many can believe, despite statements to the contrary by people in his own administration, and our global partners that he is always right .

 

[IndyDave1776]

So why do Mattis and Tillerson say that it is the best that the US stay in the deal. And if the deal is the worst the US has ever made (which Trump says) why not decertify it, and withdraw? That doesn't make any sense. The worst deal EVER, and you don't leave it, but you punt it to Congress for them to deal with. It's truly amazing how Trump isn't considered swamp, and how many can believe, despite statements to the contrary by people in his own administration, and our global partners that he is always right .

You are looking at this backwards. It isn't blind faith in Trump but rather that we already had our own ideas and Trump is the only person in office in anything approaching recent memory who had been anywhere close to them even if he isn't the slickest representative for our ideas.

As for Mattis and Tillerson, I believe that question was answered very well here:

Or could it be, in response to the limited maneuvering room Trump has on NK, he wants to get out ahead of the Iran problem - which he (and many other people) believe will lead to the same Rubicon we are at now with NK

Secretary Mattis could just as easily be against withdrawal because he is doing his job and thinking strategically as a war fighter. He may be just as convinced as Trump that we will eventually have to put the Ayatollahs in their place (or allow Israel to slip the lead and do it for us) and just feels we should only take on one crazy regime bent on war at a time

Same with Tillerson; his job is to try to accomplish American ends with diplomacy, but sometimes diplomats fail to keep in mind that talking about US goals at some point no longer contributes anything to achieving them

I do not think you are or can give consideration to how far the countdown clocks to war with both NK and Iran had run down by the time Trump took office. Perhaps you truly believe that allowing NK to develop a reliable long range nuclear delivery system will suddenly transform them into a rational counterpart in a MAD sort of stalemate. I do not

And where Iran is concerned, I think the only breathing room for us would be they likely would be unable to resist using a nuclear weapon on Israel for enough time to develop and test a delivery system capable of reaching us. This might contribute to Israel's much less sanguine view of the agreement - they will be the first to pay the consequences. Both regimes are also open to sharing technology, and possibly the weapons themselves, with proxies and non-state actors which will only further complicate deterrence

Do you seriously think that if Iran allowed/enabled Hezbollah to detonate a nuclear weapon within Israel, that any return strike would not be subject to bleeding heart cries about all the 'innocent' Iranians that would be killed
These regimes continue to cynically use their own populace as human shields

 

[Leadeye]

For all the talking heads know Trump, Tillerson, and Mattis could be running a game on the Iranians. What's real, exaggerated, or contrived at this level is something few know.

 

[Kutnupe14]

For all the talking heads know Trump, Tillerson, and Mattis could be running a game on the Iranians. What's real, exaggerated, or contrived at this level is something few know.

Mattis said he believed that the US should stay in the deal at a Congressional hearing. Are you implying that he told them something that he believed was false?

Starts at the 40sec mark.
[video=youtube;-oU1becPOys]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oU1becPOys[/video]

 

[Woobie]

Eh, what is said in a public hearing might be for the benefit of those watching. What is said behind closed doors to the congressmen that matter might be a bit different.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Eh, what is said in a public hearing might be for the benefit of those watching. What is said behind closed doors to the congressmen that matter might be a bit different.

You may be right, but public or private, you say something untruthful to congress, and you're opening yourself up to possible prosecution. And given that there will be Democrats in both the public and private sessions, that's a risk no sane Republican would take.

Edit: further Mattis took a extended pause before contradicting his boss. The President has we have seen, doesn't often shine on people saying things that don't fall in line with his beliefs. I see no reason not to take Mattis at his word. He, along with Kelley and Tillerson, as Cocker said, are the only things saving us from outright chaos. Those guys seem to honestly be trying to look out for the best interests of the country, and are our bulwark against the incompetence coming out of the Oval Office.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

Trump is just a incompetent Racist.Hillary would have done a much better job up to this point.

 

[BugI02]

Mattis said he believed that the US should stay in the deal at a Congressional hearing. Are you implying that he told them something that he believed was false?

Starts at the 40sec mark.

Yeah, that never happens, does it?

Wyden then asked Clapper, “Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?” He responded, “No, sir.” Wyden asked “It does not?” and Clapper said, “Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect, but not wittingly.”

 

[Woobie]

You may be right, but public or private, you say something untruthful to congress, and you're opening yourself up to possible prosecution. And given that there will be Democrats in both the public and private sessions, that's a risk no sane Republican would take.

Edit: further Mattis took a extended pause before contradicting his boss. The President has we have seen, doesn't often shine on people saying things that don't fall in line with his beliefs. I see no reason not to take Mattis at his word. He, along with Kelley and Tillerson, as Cocker said, are the only things saving us from outright chaos. Those guys seem to honestly be trying to look out for the best interests of the country, and are our bulwark against the incompetence coming out of the Oval Office.

You make your point well, and I think you're probably right. I'm just throwing out possible alternatives. I've more or less become disenchanted with D.C. over the last 10-12 years. It's all smoke and mirrors, or not. Who can tell the difference?

 

[jamil]

Trump is just a incompetent Racist.

well, I don’t know that I’d say he’s a racist per se.

 

[Hkindiana]

Trump is just a incompetent Racist.Hillary would have done a much better job up to this point.

Think what you will of President Trump, but do you REALLY THINK hillary would be doing a better job? I think she would just be lining her pockets and kowtowing to every foreign government that might make her MORE money. Also, what do you REALLY think she would have done after the Las Vegas shooting?

 

[jamil]

Think what you will of President Trump, but do you REALLY THINK hillary would be doing a better job? I think she would just be lining her pockets and kowtowing to every foreign government that might make her MORE money. Also, what do you REALLY think she would have done after the Las Vegas shooting?

Heh. Not everyone uses purple.