The Nuclear Iran Situation

[Birds Away]

Shades of Munich..."Peace in our time".

 

[pudly]

Shades of Munich..."Peace in our time".

Sigh... Not only has this administration replaced Carter as the worst president, I'm afraid that they have also replaced Chamberlain for worst diplomatic deal.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Boehner and other congresspeople say that Congress will do "everything it can" to stop the deal.

They better. They'll get attacked over it perpetually, but the deal needs to die.

 

[T.Lex]

Sigh... Not only has this administration replaced Carter as the worst president, I'm afraid that they have also replaced Chamberlain for worst diplomatic deal.

Technically, we won't know that for sure until a couple years have passed. I'll not be taking the bet, though.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Oh, and we're going to pay for Arak.

AYFKM

 

[j706]

It guarantees an Israeli strike. They have no other option if they want to continue to exist.

THIS^^^ Israel will NOT EVER let Iran have nukes as long as they can do something about it. And they can do something about it. What a bunch of blooming a-- idiots we have running this place.

 

[mrjarrell]

Obama's Nuclear Deal with Iran is the Worst Option, Except for all the Others - Hit & Run : Reason.com

It may not be the best deal, but it's the best anyone's going to get and the opponents have no plan. Just bluster.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Israel not bound by Iran deal, will defend itself: Netanyahu

 

[Birds Away]

Obama's Nuclear Deal with Iran is the Worst Option, Except for all the Others - Hit & Run : Reason.com

It may not be the best deal, but it's the best anyone's going to get and the opponents have no plan. Just bluster.

So making a deal just for the sake of making a deal? There were other options.

 

[T.Lex]

Obama's Nuclear Deal with Iran is the Worst Option, Except for all the Others - Hit & Run : Reason.com

It may not be the best deal, but it's the best anyone's going to get and the opponents have no plan. Just bluster.

This suggests Obama/Kerry had a "plan." They didn't. And don't.

I am not convinced it is the best for the US. It is good for Iran, Russia, and China, in that order basically. But, in foreign policy, POTUS is the sole planner. "No one else" even gets a seat at the table.

So, it is hollow to say that no one else had a better option. No one else can.

 

[Birds Away]

BTW, that article could have been written by Chamberlain himself.

 

[Alpo]

Sigh... Not only has this administration replaced Carter as the worst president, I'm afraid that they have also replaced Chamberlain for worst diplomatic deal.

The Carter observation: Maybe, probably. The Chamberlain observation: NFW.

 

[mrjarrell]

This suggests Obama/Kerry had a "plan." They didn't. And don't.

I am not convinced it is the best for the US. It is good for Iran, Russia, and China, in that order basically. But, in foreign policy, POTUS is the sole planner. "No one else" even gets a seat at the table.

So, it is hollow to say that no one else had a better option. No one else can.

They may not have entered with a solid plan, but the concessions they did get were not unsubstantial. This will buy time and set any plans they may have had for a bomb back by years.

• remove two-thirds of installed centrifuges and store them under international supervision
• get rid of 98% of its enriched uranium
• accept that sanctions would be rapidly restored if the deal was violated
• permanently give the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) access "where necessary when necessary"

 

[ArcadiaGP]

They may not have entered with a solid plan, but the concessions they did get were not unsubstantial. This will buy time and set any plans they may have had for a bomb back by years.

"permanently give access..."

Except not:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJ3qym0WwAAMn_x.jpg:large

"sanctions restored if..."

Irrelevant, really.

"Set back plans by years..."

Or just a few months, or just a year. But who's counting


When Putin, Assad, and Iran are happy about something... I'd hope people would find it even slightly difficult to defend what they're happy about.

 

[T.Lex]

They may not have entered with a solid plan, but the concessions they did get were not unsubstantial. This will buy time and set any plans they may have had for a bomb back by years.

Only if they abide by it. Which, the consensus is, they will not.

BTW, this is as much - perhaps more - a caving in to Russia as it is to Iran. Along those same lines, increasing Iran's access to capital will be destabilizing in the ME in the short term.

 

[jamil]

The Carter observation: Maybe, probably. The Chamberlain observation: NFW.

I dunno. I'll just go by presidents in my lifetime. Carter was probably the most incompetent. And I suppose we can actually thank his incompetence for him not being even worse. But I still think there's a case to be made that Johnson was worse than Carter. And what about Nixon? Turns out, he WAS a crook. But probably not the worst president in my lifetime. Nixon got caught. I wonder what other presidents have done that may be worse and didn't get caught.

 

[Alpo]

Meh. Used to believe that foreign policy was equivalent to 11th dimensional chess: there was no way an ordinary citizen without access to top secret information and studies could put a value on any government decision in this arena.

Then 9-11 happened. And I realized that most administrations do not have an 11th dimension chess board. Parcheesi or checkers is about it.

This may or may not be a good long term deal. What it does is give some additional stability in the short run. In the long run, everything will change.

 

[T.Lex]

This may or may not be a good long term deal. What it does is give some additional stability in the short run.

As I reflect more on this, I disagree with even the assertion that it achieves short term stability. In fact, I'm starting to think instability was really the goal.

Consider this: Russia gets back into arming Iran. We get back into arming Saudi Arabia and other ME allies... except possibly Israel. Ideally, we would use this as an opportunity to repair our relationship with Israel, but I have no illusions that it will happen.

The arms race itself is a foreign policy marathon. Plus, to indulge the conspiracy theorists, our MIC will derive benefits that help our economy.

Mix in Daesh and the burgeoning caliphate, and we're back to proxy wars, parachute pants and pop-synth on the radio.

 

[jamil]

I'm not going to judge this deal until I understand it to the extent an ordinary citizen can understand it.

I'm generally of the mindset to tell Iran, if you try to build a nuke, we'll blow your **** up. And then make sure we keep our end of the bargain. This doesn't sound like that kind of deal. But I'm open to other suggestions if they sound sane.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Kerry on Fordow just now: "We'll have daily access"

Mitchell: No you won't.

Kerry: Yeah, but we can file questions.

I find it odd the people that usually advocate "question everything!" are so quick to accept the government narrative at face value.