The Irony of Obama

[Fletch]

It turns my stomach, on the one hand, to hear people advocating the death penalty for doctors who perform abortions.

On the other hand, I also want to retch when I hear someone use the word "parasite" to describe a fetus.

I've long believed that if something is bad enough to make me nauseous at the very thought of it, it's usually a good first indicator that the thought is on the wrong track, morally speaking.

 

[ATF Consumer]

1) If you're holding hostages, expect someone to try to kill you to protect the liberties of your hostages.
2) Torture of prisoners who have basic human rights until tried in the courts is wrong...keep in mind, you can become a "terrorist" just for posting on these boards if things get too outta hand...
3) When a fetus begins growing, it is a parasite, unable to exist without the mother. It's not sentient. At SOME POINT, it becomes a child. I won't debate that point with you, but the mother has rights & the child has rights. A parasitical fetus doesn't. Morning after pill = good. Partial birth abortion = bad. In between is gray & I would prefer it to be a family decision, not societal/governmental.


You have some awfully inconsistent views there Field King. Please step back & think about what I & everyone else here has said.

Those elderly individuals whom cannot provide for themselves, that need feeding by a nurse...are they also considered parasites? Should they also be allowed to be terminated if their children don't want to be burdened or punished with them?

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Those elderly individuals whom cannot provide for themselves, that need feeding by a nurse...are they also considered parasites? Should they also be allowed to be terminated if their children don't want to be burdened or punished with them?

Are those elderly individuals inside other human beings?

Cancer is born within & of humans...yet we kill it with everything but fire. Cellular division which doesn't benefit the host body is parasitical. I'm not saying when cellular division becomes a child...I'm just stating that it's not at conception... Do you hold a memorial service every time you masturbate? Should we hold trials to determine fault in 1st trimester miscarriages? Should a vasectomy be considered mass murder?

At some point it's the mother's body. At some point it becomes two bodies.

 

[CarmelHP]

What does abortion have to do with Obama going beyond abortion and supporting the killing of live babies? Even if you think abortion is morally gray, he thinks infanticide is A-OK. Apparently, frighteningly, so do many others.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Are those elderly individuals inside other human beings?

Cancer is born within & of humans...yet we kill it with everything but fire. Cellular division which doesn't benefit the host body is parasitical. I'm not saying when cellular division becomes a child...I'm just stating that it's not at conception... Do you hold a memorial service every time you masturbate? Should we hold trials to determine fault in 1st trimester miscarriages? Should a vasectomy be considered mass murder?

At some point it's the mother's body. At some point it becomes two bodies.

I didn't know that that was the qualification to kill...must be inside other human. I'll make note of that.

Cancer is a deadly disease, growing a child in the womb is not.

Masturbation does not produce fertilization, so nothing to cry about.

Autopsies should be made in all miscarriages to determine the cause of death and act on that information accordingly.

 

[jedi]

Abortion supporters espouse the worst kind of moral vanity.

For those that CHOOSE to believe that the baby isn't alive til its given birth to, check this out.I hope it gives you a different perspective on things.

Unborn baby grabs surgeon !

snopes.com: Fetal Surgery Photo

 

[cce1302]

snopes.com: Fetal Surgery Photo

babies respond to all sorts of things while they're still in their mother's womb. Anybody can see that on an ultrasound. Any of the rest of you who've seen ultrasounds performed can attest to that. I have 3 kids, so I've seen quite a few.

 

[cce1302]

Abortions will be conducted whether it is legal or not. At least having it done legally will keep it out of dirty back alleys.

Why does it matter where it occurs? A shameful act like abortion shouldn't be dressed up by doctors and made respectable just because it occurs in hospitals.

and before you reply that it's "safe" in hospitals, safe for who? The baby? I don't think so. The baby dies either way.

My argument against abortion isn't a religious one; it's a logical one based on my own observations, my own study, and on the words of many doctors. There are doctors on both sides of the issue. Some say that before a baby is born it is not a person, some say that it is a person. I side with those that recognize an unborn baby as a person.

 

[Richard]

IMHO abortion is one of the most vile practices & should only be allowed to be preformed in the most drastic of scenarios, such as either to save the life of the mother or in case of rape or incest.

In all other cases the mother willingly chose to spread her legs w/out the use of contraceptive measures & created a human life and that unborn child should be protected by society even if it's being protected from it's own murderous mother.

It's not a parasite, it's not a cancer, it's not just a clump of cells, it's a child.

 

[cce1302]

IMHO abortion is one of the most vile practices & should only be allowed to be preformed in the most drastic of scenarios, such as either to save the life of the mother or in case of rape or incest.

I have known products of rape, and yes, incest, that would disagree with you. Why should a child die for the sin of his father?

I agree on your other posts.

 

[Fletch]

Guys, do we really need the whole "spread her legs" euphemism to be repeated by everyone before it can be assumed that we all "get it" when it comes to the unprotected sex aspect of this discussion?

 

[USMC_0311]

To bad Obama's moma didn't have an ABORTION. That would be my only exception.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

IMHO abortion is one of the most vile practices & should only be allowed to be preformed in the most drastic of scenarios, such as either to save the life of the mother or in case of rape or incest.

In all other cases the mother willingly chose to spread her legs w/out the use of contraceptive measures & created a human life and that unborn child should be protected by society even if it's being protected from it's own murderous mother.

It's not a parasite, it's not a cancer, it's not just a clump of cells, it's a child.

You seem to have conveniently forgotten cases where contraceptives were in place & pregnancy still occurred. Does that change your mind? Is it ok for her to have an abortion if she gave it the ol' college try?

Are you willing to adopt & care for (aka...love, raise, & teach) the children you're so willing to force these women to have? Or, are you just gonna stick with your own children & let someone else take care of the product of your forced morality?

In my personal opinion, abortion (as well as euthanasia) is a family issue & you, the government, and everyone else needs to stay out of it.

Legislated morality never works...

 

[Fletch]

Are you willing to adopt & care for (aka...love, raise, & teach) the children you're so willing to force these women to have? Or, are you just gonna stick with your own children & let someone else take care of the product of your forced morality?

And even if you're not, are you willing to try to do SOMETHING, politically speaking, about the godawful INSANE price of adopting a child these days? I make a very nice middle-class income, as does my wife, but honestly the main reason we haven't adopted yet is because A: the process is horrendously overcomplicated, and B: we don't have the $20k MINIMUM entry fee just laying around. It makes me wonder how people who make less do it... is it all credit cards and second mortgages, or what? Sure, the government will reimburse your costs over the next 3 years through tax breaks, but freeing up some of the burdensome regulations would go a long way toward making this an easier, cheaper, more accessible means for childless couples like ourselves to get into the baby game.

 

[ATF Consumer]

And even if you're not, are you willing to try to do SOMETHING, politically speaking, about the godawful INSANE price of adopting a child these days? I make a very nice middle-class income, as does my wife, but honestly the main reason we haven't adopted yet is because A: the process is horrendously overcomplicated, and B: we don't have the $20k MINIMUM entry fee just laying around. It makes me wonder how people who make less do it... is it all credit cards and second mortgages, or what? Sure, the government will reimburse your costs over the next 3 years through tax breaks, but freeing up some of the burdensome regulations would go a long way toward making this an easier, cheaper, more accessible means for childless couples like ourselves to get into the baby game.

Very good points...

They place all of this red tape crap for those wishing to adopt, but hilljack Jane and bushwacker Bob can go get er done in their trailer without any type of qualifications on them whatsoever.

Lose the red tape and let these families adopt without the interference of the government.

 

[dross]

Control of her body, yes...but not to kill the life that is inside of her.

I think that life does begin at conception, as the division of cells immediately begins once this takes place. I am atheist, and my value of life comes from the appreciation for it and from experiencing it.
The realization that if my mother would have aborted me, I would not have had the opportunity to enjoy all of the wonders of life.
And to think that these selfish individuals are willing to steal that from an unborn child is beyond me...that is just too difficult to fathom.

You ignored the rest of my post where I addressed that. Yes, if you think that a human being is created at conception, you will believe that all abortion is equal, and murder. I don't think that's the case, but I respect those who do.

I don't ask you to agree, I just ask you to understand that I believe there is nuance in the issue.

 

[dross]

What does "choice" or "controlling one's body" have to do with killing or starving a baby BORN ALIVE living outside anyone's body. What do the mindless abortionist shibboleths have to do with killing babies living, breathing, outside the mother's body, babies? If it's OK to kill a baby two hours after it's born, why not two days, two weeks, two years? The pro-death forces have embedded their tentacles well if they have otherwise sensible people blinding defending infanticide.

I haven't read anyone defending that practice, they just ignore it. Obama is on record voting for it, and no one will address the issue. Yes, we have a president who believes in letting a baby die because it survived an abortion. Infanticide. I do wish someone would defend this practice, or defend Obama for making it. It seems as if no one wants to defend that ground, and with good reason.

 

[dross]

Somewhere around the time of the sixties a change happened, and people forgot how our government works. Our government is representative. Holding a sign on the courthouse steps is all well and dramatic, but it doesn't put you in touch with your representative. If your representatives have no idea what you think, how can they represent you? Start emailing or mailing them and encouraging others to do the same.

Respectfully, I think your statement demonstrates that you are idealistic about how our government actually works.

Writing a politician isn't going to make them change their stance on any but the most neutral issues. They have extensive information about what their constituents believe, based on the pollsters they hire who tell them a great deal more about that than any protest or writing campaign will. The way voting districts are gerrrymandered, most seats are not in contention anyway. Those people in secure districts are elected because they believe whatever their constiuents believe. In the close contested districts, you're going to have either a candidate who is firmly for abortion or firmly against, or two candidates with the same views, depending on the district.

They've rigged the system so we have very little control over our politicians. The best way to control them is with money. Groups like the NRA, where your money can be pooled with other like-minded people's money and used to win elections.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

I haven't read anyone defending that practice, they just ignore it. Obama is on record voting for it, and no one will address the issue. Yes, we have a president who believes in letting a baby die because it survived an abortion. Infanticide. I do wish someone would defend this practice, or defend Obama for making it. It seems as if no one wants to defend that ground, and with good reason.

Oh, that's not defendable in any way, shape, or form. I seriously doubt any of us agree with it. "Abortion" in the birth canal is murder, plain & simple.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

delete...double post. 1500ms latency on the work T1 is really bad...