The insane social justice thread

[Kutnupe14]

Silly professor. He was judging the college-level paper by English standards, not Ebonics.

Ebonics? Have you read the paper(s), or are you just saying that because the person in the picture is black? Is bad grammar and spelling only a flaw of those who use ebonics? News to me.

Kut (points out your bias)

 

[churchmouse]

Ebonics? Have you read the paper(s), or are you just saying that because the person in the picture is black? Is bad grammar and spelling only a flaw of those who use ebonics? News to me.

Kut (points out your bias)

Text speak.....The new Ebonics for the masses.

 

[cobber]

Here's what comprises a "hostile climate" these days.

The "students" ought to be going after all the teachers before university who never corrected them, and their parents (I know, I'm assuming here). At this point, they should be thankinghis prof for actually giving a d*mn.

 

[jamil]

The Reddit comments are actually funny. "Hands up don't grade"

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

The Reddit comments are actually funny. "Hands up don't grade"

To grade is to judge and judging is bad, therefore grading must be bad as well.

 

[pudly]

Ebonics? Have you read the paper(s), or are you just saying that because the person in the picture is black? Is bad grammar and spelling only a flaw of those who use ebonics? News to me.

Kut (points out your bias)

I used the term ebonics because:
1- It applies to the only racial group that is acting like spoiled children in this story.
2- At no point did the article (did you actually read it?) say that only black student papers were corrected for grammar/spelling.

Val Rust, a professor of education and information, was the target of the protestors for what they feel was racial insensitivity. Describing themselves as “aggrieved minority students,” they claim that the professor was wrong to correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar in the papers of black students.

This is strictly another cry bully protest. No one can point out where the professor actually was factually wrong or inconsistent in his treatment of these students. There is no reason why this professor should expect less of his black students than any others in his class. Shame on you Kutnupe14. This was a very weak race-baiting effort on your part.

 

[jamil]

Ebonics? Have you read the paper(s), or are you just saying that because the person in the picture is black? Is bad grammar and spelling only a flaw of those who use ebonics? News to me.

Kut (points out your bias)

No. We have no idea if the English paper was written in Ebonics. I remember 20 years ago listening to George Wills argue with a proponent of Ebonics on PBS. I forget what her name was but she was a prominent lefty activist and person of color. She argued then that correcting black people's use of Ebonics is wrong because as a cultural language it is just like any other dialect of English. As an example, it wouldn't be fair to judge Australian English usage against American rules. Wills argued that Ebonics is an informal cultural language with no thesaurus, no dictionary, no written rules of pronunciation or structure. Ebonics is not simply another dialect of English like British English, Australian, or whatever. And in the US it is appropriate to use American English as a standard for English.

Remembering that debate and then hearing of a black student making a similar argument, I have to admit that it was my first thought. But that's actually giving the kid the benefit of the doubt. Making an argument that Ebonics is an acceptable English dialect is at least an intellectually honest argument, even if it's false.

It is absurd to say that certain racial groups must be graded less stringently than others because of skin color. That IS indeed the soft racism of low expectations.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I love when people have fun with Wikipedia.

 

[jamil]

Some people are human Christmas trees. Might as well hang bulbs off her ****.

I love when people have fun with Wikipedia.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I used the term ebonics because:
1- It applies to the only racial group that is acting like spoiled children in this story.
2- At no point did the article (did you actually read it?) say that only black student papers were corrected for grammar/spelling.

This is strictly another cry bully protest. No one can point out where the professor actually was factually wrong or inconsistent in his treatment of these students. There is no reason why this professor should expect less of his black students than any others in his class. Shame on you Kutnupe14. This was a very weak race-baiting effort on your part.

No, shame on you for expecting that I would accept this poor excuse. You should know, better than most, that I'm going to look (or in this case, already have looked) into the matter. Unfortunately (for you), you first point is incorrect. Even if we can agree that the students were acting like "spoiled children," the students consisted of more than the single ethnicity you are indicating.

In your second point, the situation which started this whole issue, occurred in a doctorate level class, and stemmed from the use of the "indigenous." The student in question, was attempting to make a point by capitalizing the world "indigenous," much the same way the words "Black," "White," or "Asian" or capitalized when referring to people, and the professor dinged him on it. So, there was not any point this particular student used a the Black dialect known as "Ebonics" within his paper.

Your post, either, makes an assumption about this student's intelligence, in the fact that you would believe that he would use spoken Black dialect, and transcribe it into a written doctorate paper or you were simply trying illustrate a bit of humor, without considering how that would paint you to a person of color.
You saw a black face and saw "grammar and punctuation," and immediately.... without having facts to rely on, made the "Ebonics" conclusion. I think we all know that if this had been a white student, it's highly unlikely that reference to spoken dialect would've been made.

 

[Kutnupe14]

No. We have no idea if the English paper was written in Ebonics. I remember 20 years ago listening to George Wills argue with a proponent of Ebonics on PBS. I forget what her name was but she was a prominent lefty activist and person of color. She argued then that correcting black people's use of Ebonics is wrong because as a cultural language it is just like any other dialect of English. As an example, it wouldn't be fair to judge Australian English usage against American rules. Wills argued that Ebonics is an informal cultural language with no thesaurus, no dictionary, no written rules of pronunciation or structure. Ebonics is not simply another dialect of English like British English, Australian, or whatever. And in the US it is appropriate to use American English as a standard for English.

Remembering that debate and then hearing of a black student making a similar argument, I have to admit that it was my first thought. But that's actually giving the kid the benefit of the doubt. Making an argument that Ebonics is an acceptable English dialect is at least an intellectually honest argument, even if it's false.

It is absurd to say that certain racial groups must be graded less stringently than others because of skin color. That IS indeed the soft racism of low expectations.

I don't anyone is asking that the students are graded less stringently because they are students of color. I don't think college students, least of all a DOCTORATE/(doctoral?) student, would expect that the use of Ebonics would be acceptable in paper.

 

[jamil]

I don't anyone is asking that the students are graded less stringently because they are students of color. I don't think college students, least of all a DOCTORATE/(doctoral?) student, would expect that the use of Ebonics would be acceptable in paper.

Are you saying this is a legitimate accusation of racism? Because the student seems to think so. If it is racism, then the professor would have had to systematically overlooked the same kinds of spelling, grammar and punctuation mistakes for white students.

If a doctoral candidate expects that Ebonics is unacceptable in an English paper, shouldn't he also expect that spelling, grammar and punctuation mistakes are also unacceptable in an English paper in a doctoral program?

Absent any proof that racism occurred I have to assume that given the context of racial activism, which this is (he's a member of a racial activist group), what does that imply?

 

[HoughMade]

I don't anyone is asking that the students are graded less stringently because they are students of color. I don't think college students, least of all a DOCTORATE/(doctoral?) student, would expect that the use of Ebonics would be acceptable in paper.

First of all...."Ebonics"? Is this 1997?

Second....and unrelated, jumping back the cultural appropriation thing. Iggy Azalea....she seems to get a pass for some reason.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Are you saying this is a legitimate accusation of racism? Because the student seems to think so. If it is racism, then the professor would have had to systematically overlooked the same kinds of spelling, grammar and punctuation mistakes for white students.

If a doctoral candidate expects that Ebonics is unacceptable in an English paper, shouldn't he also expect that spelling, grammar and punctuation mistakes are also unacceptable in an English paper in a doctoral program?

Absent any proof that racism occurred I have to assume that given the context of racial activism, which this is (he's a member of a racial activist group), what does that imply?

"Racism?" Did the students actually cite racism? I am unaware that this professor was called racist. I may have missed it, but I can not recall seeing that charge leveled against him.

And don't play coy with me Jamil, there is an obviously difference between a black student being accused of submitting a paper written in the Ebonic dialect, rather than simply making punctuation or grammatical errors.

Further, the student was trying to make a point concerning the capitalization of the word "indigenous." It was done completely on purpose. If one is going to make an argument about how the classification of "indigenous" persons should be held on a equal status of say "Black," or "White," then the argument is weakened, if the author of the paper refers to them as "indigenous," rather than "Indigenous," does it not? It's fair to ask, that if a professor read the paper thoroughly, why would he have not understood this? The failure wasn't an unwitting mistake of the author capitalizing incorrectly, he didn't do that. The failure was on the professor in that he disagreed with the student's assessment.

To give you an example, it is commonly held, that the deity of the Christian Bible is referred to as "God," with a capital G. If I were an atheist, writing a paper about atheism, and referred to God, as "god," grammatically, I'd be incorrect.... but I doubt you'd find many professors, understanding the pointing trying to be made dinging the author of the intentional misuse.

 

[Kutnupe14]

First of all...."Ebonics"? Is this 1997?

Second....and unrelated, jumping back the cultural appropriation thing. Iggy Azalea....she seems to get a pass for some reason.

While being insanely fine, Iggy was given grief for cultural misappropriation.... by idiots, I might add.

 

[jamil]

"Racism?" Did the students actually cite racism? I am unaware that this professor was called racist. I may have missed it, but I can not recall seeing that charge leveled against him.

And don't play coy with me Jamil, there is an obviously difference between a black student being accused of submitting a paper written in the Ebonic dialect, rather than simply making punctuation or grammatical errors.

Further, the student was trying to make a point concerning the capitalization of the word "indigenous." It was done completely on purpose. If one is going to make an argument about how the classification of "indigenous" persons should be held on a equal status of say "Black," or "White," then the argument is weakened, if the author of the paper refers to them as "indigenous," rather than "Indigenous," does it not? It's fair to ask, that if a professor read the paper thoroughly, why would he have not understood this? The failure wasn't an unwitting mistake of the author capitalizing incorrectly, he didn't do that. The failure was on the professor in that he disagreed with the student's assessment.

To give you an example, it is commonly held, that the deity of the Christian Bible is referred to as "God," with a capital G. If I were an atheist, writing a paper about atheism, and referred to God, as "god," grammatically, I'd be incorrect.... but I doubt you'd find many professors, understanding the pointing trying to be made dinging the author of the intentional misuse.

They're not upset because the prof disagreed on the capitalization of one word. That was just an example they gave. They're upset because they think he creates a hostile racial climate: they said that. They accused him of micro-agressions: they said that. My honest opinion is that they have their feelers turned up too high. If you have to make up a word like "micro-aggression" to describe the racism you see, you're probably not very objective about race.

So, I'll ask again. Do you think this is a legitimate accusation of racism? Twenty five members of Call 2 Action: Graduate Students of Color don't make you the target of their sit in for a simple disagreement on whether their capitalization of "Indigenous" was proper.

 

[Kutnupe14]

They're not upset because the prof disagreed on the capitalization of one word. That was just an example they gave. They're upset because they think he creates a hostile racial climate: they said that. They accused him of micro-agressions: they said that. My honest opinion is that they have their feelers turned up too high. If you have to make up a word like "micro-aggression" to describe the racism you see, you're probably not very objective about race.

So, I'll ask again. Do you think this is a legitimate accusation of racism? Twenty five members of Call 2 Action: Graduate Students of Color don't make you the target of their sit in for a simple disagreement on whether their capitalization of "Indigenous" was proper.

If your asking me if I think they're too sensitive, then yes, I think they are. If you think that the students are accusing him of racism, I do not. You don't have to be racist to say some racial things. Heck, you don't even have to understand why something is racial. INGO, has plenty of members who say/do some pretty offensive stuff, without understanding why it's viewed that way.

So now I get to asking a questioned. Was the assignment of "Ebonics," to the student justified? And if not, do you understand why it was offensive?

 

[jamil]

While being insanely fine, Iggy was given grief for cultural misappropriation.... by idiots, I might add.

First, the term isn't cultural misappropriation because it seems any "appropriation" of culture to this generation is misappropriation.

Second, why is cultural appropriation even bad? How is that racism?

What's wrong with admiring what other groups do, regardless of race, and liking that, or emulating that? For example, I love real jazz, which is undeniably Black. You can say I've culturally appropriated that all you want. So What? (see what I did there?) My love for that kind of music hasn't harmed anyone. I've helped many black musicians make money over the years because I actually prefer to pay for my music rather than steal it. And I've enjoyed jazz music from some White jazz artists too. I have a collection of jazz from various Black and White artists, and I appreciate the contribution both races have made. White jazz musicians have added to Jazz by their cultural appropriation and the Jazz culture than if it were only for Blacks by Blacks. No one lost anything.

There are a few contexts in which I think it's bad. For example, when it is accompanied by dishonesty. When a white woman lies to say she is black so that she can gain particular employment that would otherwise be unavailable--Rachel Dolezal--that's bad. Or, it's bad when a white man lies to say he's black--Shaun King--to gain a social status from a group that he would otherwise not earn.

 

[Kutnupe14]

First, the term isn't cultural misappropriation because it seems any "appropriation" of culture to this generation is misappropriation.

Second, why is cultural appropriation even bad? How is that racism?

What's wrong with admiring what other groups do, regardless of race, and liking that, or emulating that? For example, I love real jazz, which is undeniably Black. You can say I've culturally appropriated that all you want. So What? (see what I did there?) My love for that kind of music hasn't harmed anyone. I've helped many black musicians make money over the years because I actually prefer to pay for my music rather than steal it. And I've enjoyed jazz music from some White jazz artists too. I have a collection of jazz from various Black and White artists, and I appreciate the contribution both races have made. White jazz musicians have added to Jazz by their cultural appropriation and the Jazz culture than if it were only for Blacks by Blacks. No one lost anything.

There are a few contexts in which I think it's bad. For example, when it is accompanied by dishonesty. When a white woman lies to say she is black so that she can gain particular employment that would otherwise be unavailable--Rachel Dolezal--that's bad. Or, it's bad when a white man lies to say he's black--Shaun King--to gain a social status from a group that he would otherwise not earn.

Uh, why are you asking me why cultural misappropriation is viewed as racist? Do you not know anybody else to have these conversations with? Lol.

 

[jamil]

If your asking me if I think they're too sensitive, then yes, I think they are. If you think that the students are accusing him of racism, I do not. You don't have to be racist to say some racial things. Heck, you don't even have to understand why something is racial. INGO, has plenty of members who say/do some pretty offensive stuff, without understanding why it's viewed that way.

So now I get to asking a questioned. Was the assignment of "Ebonics," to the student justified? And if not, do you understand why it was offensive?

As it turns out, no. The details of the story make that clear. I do understand why it was offensive, and at the risk of re-offending, I'll say this about that. Offense can only be taken, not given. To be offended you must first decide that the person means it in an offensive way, and then you have to decide that offends you.

In this case, there's no evidence I've seen that the professor discounted the capitalization of "indigenous" because of racial bias. There's no evidence that he systematically preferred white students over black students.

"Micro-aggression" was a term invented to insert racial components in situations like this when there aren't any otherwise. I don't accept the premise of micro-aggressions as offensive mechanisms. It asserts that the offended person has not committed the same act by taking offense to it.