The Hatred in the Heart of White America

[BogWalker]

Well you know what they say about assuming things.........I guess that makes you the ass because I never posted anywhere that I was a Christian or a follower of the bible. I also don't recall seeing on the news or reading in the paper about the latest Christian suicide bomber. I could care less if those muslims are ignorant or dumb asses or brainwashed. They kill innocent people in the name of mohammad. Ive NEVER heard of a christian killing an innocent person in the name of Jesus.

Maybe I wasn't addressing you personally? There's well over a dozen people participating in discussion. Nothing makes you more worthy of my attention.

My oh my, making quite the splash in the logic department aren't we? Vilifying an entire people for the actions of a few. Quite the upstanding gentlemen. Of course I'm assuming you are a man. So, if you aren't Christian what are you then? You know Stalin was an atheist. I suppose that means you are a Communist and a murderer because if one atheist was that means they all were. Right, that's how it works isn't it?

Do all Mexicans come here illegally?

Venturing on a limb I'd say you are a Christian of some flavor, but insults were the only argument you could make. At least make some attempt at logic rather than a child's insult. Do all the Irish just love potatoes?

 

[ModernGunner]

...No one I know would support harassing or attacking innocent people.

^^^^This.^^^^​

I agree with expat that no rational thinking person would support the harassment of innocents...

^^^^This.^^^^​

...I for one, will never apologize for being an American, for our culture or our values...

^^^^This.^^^^​

A few excerpts from the quran... Quran (4:95)... Quran (4:104)... Quran (5:33)... Quran (8:12) ...Quran (8:15 - 16) ... Just from these few passages I dont see the out for the Moderate Muslim.

Perhaps a few more (in addition to those already cited), for those that might feel Ironhippie is just 'cherry-picking':

1:6-7, 2:6, 2:65, 2:75, 2:98-99, 2:178, 2:193,3:10, 3:32, 3:54, 3:82, 3:85, 3:110, 3:118, 4:48, 4:56, 4:76, 4:88,4:101, 4:134, 4:141, 4:143-144, 4:150-152, 4:160-162, 5:13, 5:17, 5:42, 5:51-52,5:60, 5:72-73, 5:101-102, 6:39, 6:43, 7:37, 7:44, 7:166, 7:176, 7:179, 8:13,8:38-39, 8:55, 8:60, 8:65, 9:29-30, 9:73, 9:123, 10:70, 10:68-69, 10:100,11:14, 11:118-199, 13:15-16, 13:27, 13:33-34, 13:41, 14:4, 14:18, 14:30, 16:9, 16:28-29,16:75-76, 16:93, 17:46, 18:27, 18:57, 18:103-106, 19:83, 21:44, 22:19-22,22:38, 24:55, 25:21, 25:52, 25:55, 27:4, 29:17, 29:68, 30:45, 32:13, 33:27,33:60-62, 35:8, 36:7-10, 36:49-64, 39:09, 39:23, 40:12, 45:23, 46:29-35, 48:28-29,56:12-40, 58:20, 58:22, 66:6, 66:9, 83:34, 86:15, 98:6.
Bukhari - 8:427, 52:260, 53:392, 54:524, 56:662, 83:17, 83:50, 84:57
Sahih Muslim 6666, 7135, 7136

As was mentioned in another thread, for those who feel that some may be 'judging' Islam 'over-harshly', perhaps they will choose to actually read the Quran (or Koran, if you prefer) and Hadith in order to better understand the mindset, as Ironhippie has illustrated.

Islam is NOT just a 'religion'. It is a complete lifestyle: religion, politics, daily activities and actions, business transactions, etc.

As Westerners the mindset is 'separation of Church & State' and we often fight ardently to do so. In Islam there is NO such mindset. Church and State are one and the same. How you pray, what you eat, how you live, how you conduct business, what you wear, and so forth is all dictated. There are no 'options'. There is no 'non-conformity'. There is only Islam, or extermination.

'Moderate' Muslims are the enemy, having been 'too Westernized'. Therefore, there is no hope for them, and they are treated as non-Muslims.

"Muslims are a peaceful people" is 'technically true', but disingenuous and deceptive. Islam ONLY requires that Muslims be peaceful to one another. With non-Muslims, well, non-Muslims are 'inferior', therefore anything is acceptable, regardless of 'Western law'. So when you hear someone from Islam on TV stating "Muslims are peaceful", they're NOT finishing the sentence: "...ONLY to other Muslims".

NO other 'religion' (loose term) teaches such a violent conformity. The mindset is, essentially, 180 degrees opposite of 'Western' thinking. It's naïve to believe otherwise.

Perhaps it's time to understand whom you're dealing with? Know your enemy.

 

[Sainte]

Excellent explanation,of islam modern!

Rep inbound.

 

[Expat]

You know Stalin was an atheist. I suppose that means you are a Communist and a murderer because if one atheist was that means they all were. Right, that's how it works isn't it?

Yes it is. You have read Marx haven't you? He believed religion was a tool of the ruling class to keep the rest down. From there look at the rest, Lenin and Stalin, atheists, communists and mass murders, Mao, ditto, Pol Pot, Castro... Virtually every communist utopia was a blood bath for everyone else.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yes it is. You have read Marx haven't you? He believed religion was a tool of the ruling class to keep the rest down. From there look at the rest, Lenin and Stalin, atheists, communists and mass murders, Mao, ditto, Pol Pot, Castro... Virtually every communist utopia was a blood bath for everyone else.

Given the times in which he lived, and obviously well before, he actually was right. Keeping in mind, that he died in 1883, religion held a massive sway over the world. It's not so much true now (depending on the region), but when he wrote about the "opiate of the masses (1843)," he was spot on.

 

[HenryWallace]

Anyone out here see a possibility that Christianity and Islam were molded and interpreted to us to be at war with one another?

 

[churchmouse]

Anyone out here see a possibility that Christianity and Islam were molded and interpreted to us to be at war with one another?

If it was then certainly a success.

 

[HARVEYtheDAMNED]

An obvious incorrect graph that is put out just to bash Christians. The three largest butchers of the 20th Century were all atheists, Hitler, Stalin and Mao.

I would just like to point out that Hitler was not an Atheist. Stalin and Mao were, but not Hitler. He was Catholic. The first treaty Nazi germany signed with with the vatican, and the pope celebrated Hitlers birthday all the way up until 1945.

Don't know why everyone in the world thinks Hitler was an Atheist. Just read the first chapter of "Mein Kompf (sp) or "My struggle." All he talks about is how destroying the jews and other "lessers" is "gods will."

Back to the point, radical Islam is a problem.

The left doesn't want to believe this.

They want all of this radical terrorism to go away so they can continue with their domestic agenda.

Also, Christopher Hitchens on Islam. I disagree with Hitchens on a lot of things, but has some major points in this video.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CADoG-gu5Zk[/ame]

 

[Expat]

I would just like to point out that Hitler was not an Atheist. Stalin and Mao were, but not Hitler. He was Catholic. The first treaty Nazi germany signed with with the vatican, and the pope celebrated Hitlers birthday all the way up until 1945.

Don't know why everyone in the world thinks Hitler was an Atheist. Just read the first chapter of "Mein Kompf (sp) or "My struggle." All he talks about is how destroying the jews and other "lessers" is "gods will."

We probably believe he is an atheist due to quotes like these:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things.

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease.

from:
Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc

 

[HARVEYtheDAMNED]

We probably believe he is an atheist due to quotes like these:






from:
Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

I would consider Mein Kampf to be a more valid source than historically debated "secret writings." My point still stands. And while hitler did make some very anti-christian remarks towards the end of his life, this fact doesn't make him an Atheist.

Also, the Catholic church refused to excommunicate Hitler, and other high ranking Nazi officials from the church, despite repeated calls to do so. Finally, they did eventually excommunicate Goebels, but only because he married a protestant.

"Gott mit Uns" German for "God is with us." On the belt buckle of every nazi soldier.

Hitler was not an Atheist.

 

[Expat]

From what I have read, I disagree. He asked all members of the SS to renounce the church and pledge allegiance only to National Socialism. He praised paganism often and dabbled in the occult. Hitler would say anything to further his purposes. He told the French that he wanted to be their friend. He played nice with the church when he felt he needed to.

"You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japaneses, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to use than Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"

Hardly the comments of a a devout Catholic.

 

[HARVEYtheDAMNED]

From what I have read, I disagree. He asked all members of the SS to renounce the church and pledge allegiance only to National Socialism. He praised paganism often and dabbled in the occult. Hitler would say anything to further his purposes. He told the French that he wanted to be their friend. He played nice with the church when he felt he needed to.


Hardly the comments of a a devout Catholic.

I would agree that he was not devout, at least not around the late 30's and onward. He was Catholic when young but his religious views were twisted into something regarding Nazism as an actual religion. He was certainly trying to turn HIMSELF into a god, that much is true.

I'm only asserting that he was not an Athest, as in he did believe in some other higher power.

 

[lucky4034]

Lucky, Have you read the Qur'ran cover to cover, or the Christian bible?

No... the only fiction text I read is Playboy.

------------------------------

@ this thread....

This is very simple... I don't persecute groups of people based on the actions of a minute portion of that population. Make sense? .000001% of Muslims have committed "Terrorist acts".

I also realize that being so damned judgmental isn't very becoming of a Christian and question why so many readily muddy their own faith by being "that guy".

If the essence of religion is to turn your nose up at non-believers, then gladly count me out.

Furthermore... this ridiculous basis that because "Non-violent Muslims don't vocally condemn terrorism" they approve of violence against Christians/Americans is irresponsible at best. As if we all speak Arab and listen to Saudi Talk Radio.... There are 1.5 billion (?) Muslims spread across the globe and its as if Americans expect them to learn English and SEEK OUT American media outlets to condemn the actions of Radical Muslims? How many Americans are flying to speak to Al Jazeera? Its absurd....

Finally, this "pick a passage" technique from the Qu'ran is also baseless. I wonder how many pissed off Muslims are google searching "Bible Passages that call for the destruction of Islam?"

The plain and simple fact is that this mindset is a product of 12+ years of indoctrination by US major media outlets. You've been programmed to associate the word "Muslim" with "Terror". PERIOD! This ongoing indoctrination has done nothing but allow the War on Terror to perpetuate beyond our pocket books. Fear and anger has been implanted in your Christian soul and it makes the lot of ya, more than happy to vote for the next Crusade.

So while you walk on egg shells, fearful of the Evil Muslim regime infiltrating the mean streets of Muncie and blowing you up with a pressure cooker, I'll sit idly by and watch the economy collapse under the strain of an ever expanding, government controlled empire, operating under the guise of an unspoken Holy War.

And tho I walk through the valley of YOUR shadow of death, I shall fear no man... or his god.

Wake Up... Terrorists aren't out to steal your lunch money any more than they are trying to blow up other Muslims.

 

[lucky4034]

Let's not muddy the Muslim apologetics with facts. Close your eyes and ears and deny all evidence. Only white Christians are guilty, ever.

Apologize for what? There is nothing to apologize for... If anything, we should feel sorry for the Muslims.

Did you even read the article?

“In cases where the religious affiliation of terrorism casualties could be determined, Muslims suffered between 82 and 97 percent of terrorism-related fatalities over the past five years,”

Great statistics there

So much for "peaceful Muslims" approving of "Radical Terrorism"

"Those thare peaceful Towel Heads... you don't never here dem speak up and condemn tha radicals. Tharfore they are GUILTY!! Turn dem to GLASS!! Nuke dem suns a *****es... Nuke'm ALL"

 

[Ironhippie]

Some more interesting tidbits about the religion of peace:

One of Islam's most revered modern scholars, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, openly sanctions offensive Jihad: "In the Jihad which you are seeking, you look for the enemy and invade him. This type of Jihad takes place only when the Islamic state is invading other [countries] in order to spread the word of Islam and to remove obstacles standing in its way." Elsewhere, he notes: "Islam has the right to take the initiative…this is God’s religion and it is for the whole world. It has the right to destroy all obstacles in the form of institutions and traditions … it attacks institutions and traditions to release human beings from their poisonous influences, which distort human nature and curtail human freedom. Those who say that Islamic Jihad was merely for the defense of the 'homeland of Islam' diminish the greatness of the Islamic way of life."

The widely respected Dictionary of Islam defines Jihad as "A religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Qur'an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam and of repelling evil from Muslims…[Quoting from the Hanafi school, Hedaya, 2:140, 141.], "The destruction of the sword is incurred by infidels, although they be not the first aggressors, as appears from various passages in the traditions which are generally received to this effect."

Muhammad's failure to leave a clear line of succession resulted in perpetual internal war following his death. Those who knew him best first fought to keep remote tribes from leaving Islam and reverting to their preferred religion (the Ridda or 'Apostasy wars'). Then, within the closer community, early Meccan converts battled later ones. Hostility developed between those immigrants who had traveled with Muhammad to Mecca and the Ansar at Medina who had helped them settle in. Finally there was a violent struggle within Muhammad's own family between his favorite wife and favorite daughter - a jagged schism that has left Shias and Sunnis at each others' throats to this day.

The strangest and most untrue thing that can be said about Islam is that it is a Religion of Peace. If every standard by which the West is judged and condemned (slavery, imperialism, intolerance, misogyny, sexual repression, warfare...) were applied equally to Islam, the verdict would be devastating. Islam never gives up what it conquers, be it religion, culture, language or life. Neither does it make apologies or any real effort at moral progress. It is the least open to dialogue and the most self-absorbed. It is convinced of its own perfection, yet brutally shuns self-examination and represses criticism.

This is what makes the Quran's verses of violence so dangerous. They are given the weight of divine command. While Muslim terrorists take them as literally as anything else in their holy book, and understand that Islam is incomplete without Jihad, moderates offer little to contradict them - outside of opinion. Indeed, what do they have? Speaking of peace and love may win over the ignorant, but when every twelfth verse of Islam's holiest book either speaks to Allah's hatred for non-Muslims or calls for their death, forced conversion, or subjugation, it's little wonder that sympathy for terrorism runs as deeply as it does in the broader community - even if most Muslims personally prefer not to interpret their religion in this way.

Although scholars like Ibn Khaldun, one of Islam's most respected philosophers, understood that "the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force", many other Muslims are either unaware or willfully ignorant of the Quran's near absence of verses that preach universal non-violence. Their understanding of Islam comes from what they are taught by others. In the West, it is typical for believers to think that their religion must be like Christianity - preaching the New Testament virtues of peace, love, and tolerance - because Muslims are taught that Islam is supposed to be superior in every way. They are somewhat surprised and embarrassed to learn that the evidence of the Quran and the bloody history of Islam are very much in contradiction to this.

Others simply accept the violence. In 1991, a Palestinian couple in America was convicted of stabbing their daughter to death for being too Westernized. A family friend came to their defense, excoriating the jury for not understanding the "culture", claiming that the father was merely following "the religion" and saying that the couple had to "discipline their daughter or lose respect." (source). In 2011, unrepentant Palestinian terrorists, responsible for the brutal murders of civilians, women and children explicitly in the name of Allah were treated to a luxurious "holy pilgrimage" to Mecca by the Saudi king - without a single Muslim voice raised in protest.

For their part, Western liberals would do well not to sacrifice critical thinking to the god of political correctness, or look for reasons to bring other religion down to the level of Islam merely to avoid the existential truth that this it is both different and dangerous.

There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran literally... and too many others who couldn't care less about the violence done in the name of Islam.



TheReligionofPeace.com Home Page

 

[lucky4034]

What is this a pissing contest?

Why don't you Wiki search the "Lord's Resistance Army"... Its been estimated that at its height, this CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALIST group was killing 1000 people weekly. (plus raping, torturing and kidnapping many more)

I can use google too... when you find some statistics to beat those numbers, let me know.

 

[miguel]

Time the mothering ****ing out, folks.

"Gott mit uns" was most certainly not on Wehrmacht belt buckles from 1939-1945. It was used on imperial German buckles in WWI.

p.s. And, despite his upbringing as a Catholic, Hitler had shed all "Christian" thought from his ideology, which was a combination of occult practices, Social Darwinism and Norse/Germanic paganism.

 

[HARVEYtheDAMNED]

Time the mothering ****ing out, folks.

"Gott mit uns" was most certainly not on Wehrmacht belt buckles from 1939-1945. It was used on imperial German buckles in WWI.

p.s. And, despite his upbringing as a Catholic, Hitler had shed all "Christian" thought from his ideology, which was a combination of occult practices, Social Darwinism and Norse/Germanic paganism.

It most certainly was, but it's also worth noting that the Waffen SS did NOT have this slogan, but instead had the german equivalent of "My honor is loyalty." I would consider THIS to be the real slogan of Hitlers soldiers, as the Gott Mitt Uns was most likely a vestigial slogan left from pre Nazi German military history.

Here is a link to an image of a WWII Wehrmacht belt, you can clearly see the inscription, as well as the swastika.

http://cdn101.iofferphoto.com/img/item/517/030/976/ww2-german-heer-wehrmacht-belt-buckle-9bcb.JPG

Let me back up a bit folks, I'm not insinuating that Hitler was a die-hard Jesus loving Christian. He was Catholic when he was younger, but his spiritual views were clearly twisted into something wholly different and evil by his writing and speeches of his final years. I'm only saying that he wasn't, as some think, an Atheist.

 

[Survivalcookie]

This is the most disingenuous argument based on complete horses**t that I have seen in some time. Assigning the total casualty count of both world wars to Christianity? Really? The antagonists in those cases were hardly practicing Christians. In fact, their only tie to Christianity was being born in nations in which Christianity was the traditional religion. That is a long way from killing in the name of religion. I also find it interesting that it is argued that those with no connection to Christianity in the sense of practicing or even assigning it value as a motivating factor are classed as violent Christians while the effort is made to argue that Moslems who die in the process of a terrorist act shouting such slogans as 'Allahu Akbar' are acting on nationalist impulses rather than religious ones.

In the end, we reach a point of looking at the obvious and saying 'if the shoe fits, wear it'. The implied corollary is that if one does not like wearing the shoe, the solution is to see that it doesn't fit, not to spew a bunch of s**t denying an obvious truth.

Why is it that a mass murderer in Scandinavia was labelled a Christian when he was not in any sense aside from that he was not a Jew or a Moslem, but Major Hassan was billed as guilty of 'workplace violence' and not a terrorist attack, religious or otherwise, in spite of shouting religious slogans while committing murder apparently in the name of religion?

One could also point out that the reason that Islam was as peaceful as it was for most of the republic's first century of life is that in the beginning they absolutely were not peaceful until having their asses handed to them by Commodore Decatur, yielding peaceful behavior out of practical necessity, not out of principle or choice.

If you are not a Muslim you are a Christian.

 

[IndyDave1776]

What is this a pissing contest?

Why don't you Wiki search the "Lord's Resistance Army"... Its been estimated that at its height, this CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALIST group was killing 1000 people weekly. (plus raping, torturing and kidnapping many more)

I can use google too... when you find some statistics to beat those numbers, let me know.

Good suggestion which you apparently did not try yourself or you would have found that it says:

Ideologically, LRA believe in African mysticism, Christian fundamentalism, and Islam.[10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20] It claims to be establishing a theocratic state based on the Ten Commandments and local Acholi tradition.[21][22][23]
The group is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the spokesman of God and a spirit medium.

You will notice that the last sentence addresses behavior on the part of Mr. Kony which places him squarely outside the boundaries of anything approaching Biblical Christianity.