The Ferguson thread

[ArcadiaGP]

President who basically convicted Darren Wilson in front of the UN and CBC is now worried about violence.

President Obama fears potential Ferguson fallout - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO

 

[printcraft]

Where the heck are you getting that crap? He was white, he was there, and he was assaulted. Yes that's true, he was a victim of unsavory persons, but how him being a protester indicates he subscribes to "white guilt," is laughable and not based on anything.... You have no idea of that man's intentions. He could be an anarchist, he could have white guilt, he could believe the shooting was unjustified, you simply don't know. It this kind of nonsense that divides people. The people in Ferguson are making this about race.... and to most outsiders with a brain, it's clearly not. But you ARE also making this about race; so you aren't helping anything. Ferguson is about dumb people and smart people, people with open or shut eyes. Those that want to vilify the police vs those that who give them the benefit of the doubt. Don't fall into the trap of being the other side coin of this Ferguson nonsense.

Hey! Long time no see! We've needed some stimulating discussion.... Welcome back!

 

[Kutnupe14]

Hey! Long time no see! We've needed some stimulating discussion.... Welcome back!

I took a brief hiatus, because things just absolutely fell apart in my world. Pretty stressful... but I can't choose my family ***sigh***. But anyways that's the past. I look forward to being a pain is everyone's butt again.

 

[Dead Duck]

I took a brief hiatus, because things just absolutely fell apart in my world. Pretty stressful... but I can't choose my family ***sigh***. But anyways that's the past. I look forward to being a pain is everyone's butt again.

That was you?

I thought I was having prison flashbacks.

 

[chipbennett]

Where the heck are you getting that crap? He was white, he was there, and he was assaulted. Yes that's true, he was a victim of unsavory persons, but how him being a protester indicates he subscribes to "white guilt," is laughable and not based on anything.... You have no idea of that man's intentions. He could be an anarchist, he could have white guilt, he could believe the shooting was unjustified, you simply don't know. It this kind of nonsense that divides people. The people in Ferguson are making this about race.... and to most outsiders with a brain, it's clearly not. But you ARE also making this about race; so you aren't helping anything. Ferguson is about dumb people and smart people, people with open or shut eyes. Those that want to vilify the police vs those that who give them the benefit of the doubt. Don't fall into the trap of being the other side coin of this Ferguson nonsense.

You could also read and listen to what he has to say. But don't let me get in the way of a good tirade. You seem to be on a roll.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

You could also read and listen to what he has to say. But don't let me get in the way of a good tirade. You seem to be on a roll.

Listen AND read ??? Facts don't go round here lawdog savvy ?

 

[chipbennett]

Listen AND read ??? Facts don't go round here lawdog savvy ?

Oh, I know. Why do hard stuff like use google to find out the guy's motivation, when you can just skip straight to the epic rant?

 

[printcraft]

......I look forward to being a pain is everyone's butt again.

We have that covered....... Trust me.

 

[Kutnupe14]

You could also read and listen to what he has to say. But don't let me get in the way of a good tirade. You seem to be on a roll.

I have read an listened to what he has to say, and I'm missing the "white apologist" part. Hence why I asked "where are you getting this crap," because it's entirely possible there's another source that I have completely missed. Or, perhaps we have read and heard the same sources, and I'm simply ignorant to what a "white apologist" is. So, I guess there are two remedies here: you can point me to your sources or you can explain what a white apologist is. Truth be told, I'd appreciate both.

 

[chipbennett]

I have read an listened to what he has to say, and I'm missing the "white apologist" part. Hence why I asked "where are you getting this crap," because it's entirely possible there's another source that I have completely missed. Or, perhaps we have read and heard the same sources, and I'm simply ignorant to what a "white apologist" is. So, I guess there are two remedies here: you can point me to your sources or you can explain what a white apologist is. Truth be told, I'd appreciate both.

Actually, the term I used was "white-guilt". I should have said known *livestreamer*, which would be more accurate than known *protester*. If I've misinterpreted his ideology, I'll own that. But I don't think that I have.

He associates himself with the goals of the protesters (as evidenced by his quotes in various news stories) - protests that are inherently racist. You can also watch all of his videos here: .Student | Bambuser

I'm still curious, though, why you flipped out over the use of the term "white-guilt"? And more importantly: why do you claim that *I* am trying to make anything about race? I'm merely commenting on what I actually see: the protesters, and their sympathizers, have made this whole thing entirely about race.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Actually, the term I used was "white-guilt". I should have said known *livestreamer*, which would be more accurate than known *protester*. If I've misinterpreted his ideology, I'll own that. But I don't think that I have.

He associates himself with the goals of the protesters (as evidenced by his quotes in various news stories) - protests that are inherently racist. You can also watch all of his videos here: .Student | Bambuser

I'm still curious, though, why you flipped out over the use of the term "white-guilt"? And more importantly: why do you claim that *I* am trying to make anything about race? I'm merely commenting on what I actually see: the protesters, and their sympathizers, have made this whole thing entirely about race.

Apologies, you used the term "white guilt," not "white apologist,".... though in truth both terms are cut from the same cloth, are they not? Looking at the vids, I cannot come to the conclusion that that he is sympathetic to the Ferguson protests at all. It appears, again looking at the vids, that this student is simply documenting the situation. I have yet to see a narrative of this student condemning the shooting of a black person, by a white police officer nor imply it was done simply due to race.... and admittedly, I skimmed most of the vids. So I'll allow that he may have, which I would be interested in having pointed out to me.

As far as this protest being "inherently racist," or your use of "white guilt," I think we can agree that words mean something. If anything the protest is inherently bias against police officers of a fairer variety (though the others are seen given quite a bit of grief as well). "Racist" denotes a belief in the superiority of an another race. We have seen a good number of non-blacks marching in these protests. As far as I know, this is the only white person that has been attacked (excluding govt officials), so does racist really fit? I will not deny that race certainly is a cornerstone of these protests, but "racist," is over the top.

As for my issue with "white guilt," I have issue with you using that term because you are assigning it simply because a white person happens to be at a protest that is mainly black. That's ridiculous, especially since there's nothing that can be attached to this young man that indicates that he is feeling guilty about anything. In the vids that I've watched, he makes mention of police militarization, the hacker group - anonymous, and the million mask march.... these are all things devoid of race, rooted in counter-culture, and not exactly indicative of "white guilt."

If I may be frank, it appears you have an issue with this young man simply for being there... how his mere presence equals "white guilt," without a narrative to support that, I am having a hard time seeing.

And for the record, I think Michael Brown was a thug. All the evidence indicates he attacked the officer and I think his stupidity caught up with him. There is nothing about this case that legitimately concerns race.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

You can't be Frank. We already have one.

View Profile: Frank_N_Stein - INGunOwners

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

You can't be Frank. We already have one.

View Profile: Frank_N_Stein - INGunOwners

The one and only.

 

[chipbennett]

Apologies, you used the term "white guilt," not "white apologist,".... though in truth both terms are cut from the same cloth, are they not? Looking at the vids, I cannot come to the conclusion that that he is sympathetic to the Ferguson protests at all. It appears, again looking at the vids, that this student is simply documenting the situation. I have yet to see a narrative of this student condemning the shooting of a black person, by a white police officer nor imply it was done simply due to race.... and admittedly, I skimmed most of the vids. So I'll allow that he may have, which I would be interested in having pointed out to me.

That's fair, and here's one example (I started from the beginning; this is from his first actual protest video): Ferguson protests @ Ferguson police department | .Student | Bambuser

He mentions that he is part of a student working group to discuss "changes" that are needed.

As far as this protest being "inherently racist," or your use of "white guilt," I think we can agree that words mean something. If anything the protest is inherently bias against police officers of a fairer variety (though the others are seen given quite a bit of grief as well). "Racist" denotes a belief in the superiority of an another race. We have seen a good number of non-blacks marching in these protests.

The protests are many things, and have been co-opted by many, varied interests (Occupy/socialist types, ISIS/Hamas sympathizers, and lots of other things). And early on, many people joined in due to a perrceived over-reaction by county law enforcement. But the genesis of the protests was very much racist: justice for a black man killed by a white police officer. The "Justice For Mike Brown" core of the protests remains racist. (Note: "racist" doesn't necessarily mean racial superiority, but also includes actions, beliefs, etc. based primarily on race.)

I've had the misfortune of seeing not just the national coverage, but also the local coverage, and listen to the locals discussing the whole thing. I can assure you that a significant number of protesters are concerned not that a person was killed by a police officer, but that a black person was killed by a white police officer. To be sure, there are plenty - I would, being an optimist, guess that they comprise a silent majority - who view the situation through a colorblind lens of right and wrong, are willing to evaluate based on the facts and evidence, have faith in the rule of law and the justice system, and are willing to accept an outcome supported by the facts and evidence, whether that outcome is a True Bill or a No True Bill. But they are not the voices being heard.

As far as I know, this is the only white person that has been attacked (excluding govt officials), so does racist really fit? I will not deny that race certainly is a cornerstone of these protests, but "racist," is over the top.

There have been many instances, both documented and anecdotal, of the protesters being hostile to non-whites, and to counter-protesters. I assume you saw the video of the white guy who was assaulted just for getting out of his car at an illegal roadblock, and saying, "I just want to go home"?

As for my issue with "white guilt," I have issue with you using that term because you are assigning it simply because a white person happens to be at a protest that is mainly black. That's ridiculous, especially since there's nothing that can be attached to this young man that indicates that he is feeling guilty about anything. In the vids that I've watched, he makes mention of police militarization, the hacker group - anonymous, and the million mask march.... these are all things devoid of race, rooted in counter-culture, and not exactly indicative of "white guilt."

He does make an effort to be a journalist, but I think his beliefs come out well enough. Again, if I've mis-judged him, I have no problem owning that.

(Side note: the great irony is that the protesters would find many supporters for the other issues you mention, especially the militarization of police, if they would be a little more welcoming of other viewpoints, a bit more articulate with their grievances, and a bit more agile in differentiating those grievances. That would include me - though I have little problem with the actual LEO response to the lawless rioting, looting, and arson that took place here in August. There were specific instances of police misconduct, and those were acted on, including the Saint John officer who was (IIRC) fired for pointing his rifle at protesters who were doing nothing wrong.)

If I may be frank, it appears you have an issue with this young man simply for being there... how his mere presence equals "white guilt," without a narrative to support that, I am having a hard time seeing.

There may be some truth to that, especially given the amount of evidence that was made public by the time he started his livestreaming. It is beyond obvious that Wilson was justified in shooting Brown in self-defense, and that the final shots happened as Brown was approaching Wilson, not with Brown on his knees in surrender with hhis hands up. I have no patience for those trying to circumvent the grand jury process, or to get McCollough removed for specious reasons. I support the rule of law and the justice system, and will accept whatever the facts and evidence dictate. If those facts and evidence had pointed to an unjustified use of deadly force, I would be calling for Wilson's arrest as well. So I likewise have no patience for those unwilling to accept the opposite outcome.

Thus, yes: it is a very short leap from my position to believing that anyone at the protests trying to "understand" the protesters likely sympathizes with the protesters.

And for the record, I think Michael Brown was a thug. All the evidence indicates he attacked the officer and I think his stupidity caught up with him. There is nothing about this case that legitimately concerns race.

If only everyone else held the same position. But the moment Ben Crump, Daryl Parks, Al Sharpton, et al got involved, that was a lost cause.

Fortunately, from what I can tell, the vast majority of St. Louis County are sick of it, and are not willing to be pawns for those who wish to push a bogus racial narrative. That includes the many law-abiding, peaceful black residents of North County, many of whom are arming themselves. It gives me hope that the agitators will wise up, and not turn the post-No Bill protests violent. We'll see.

 

[Bluejeeper]

Soo...it's friday. Any word yet on a decision?

 

[Dead Duck]

Soo...it's friday. Any word yet on a decision?

Ya-
When is this show going to start?

 

[chipbennett]

Soo...it's friday. Any word yet on a decision?

Ya-
When is this show going to start?

Well, when I woke up today, it was 20 degrees outside. So today would be perfect. But, the latest I'm hearing is Monday. At this point, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[1911ly]

It might be a good ideal to have a foot of snow on the ground. Trouble is then they might light buildings up just for warmth. I feel for that community.

 

[cobber]

Michael Brown protesters stage 'die-in' St. Louis - AOL.com

"Rioting and looting are the tools of those without a voice. The rioting and looting, while I didn't participate in it, was necessary. Without it we would not be standing here today," Ali said. "There is no revolution without violence."

I didn't get that memo...

 

[jd4320t]

Will they wait and release it closer to thanksgiving with hopes the holiday will keep the trash settled down?