The Ferguson thread

[chipbennett]

How, on your way to an apartment to make arrest, do you encounter a guy in the parking lot.... who you know isn't the guy you're looking for, cuff him, place him in a patrol car, run him, find out he has no warrants, find out he's the landlord of the apartments, and then ask for his help in making the arrest. And when the guy makes a complaint the response is that his detainment was "minimal?"

How is it not harassment to purposefully go to apartment complexes and conduct "ped checks" of people out in the open, and think your covered under Terry?

Again: anecdote of individual examples of wrongdoing (and even racial bias) do not prove systemic racial bias in the entire department.

 

[Kutnupe14]

How do you arrest a guy outside of the police station when he refuses to identify himself or be frisked, and then resists physically the officers attempts to take him into custody?

 

[chipbennett]

How do you arrest a guy outside of the police station when he refuses to identify himself or be frisked, and then resists physically the officers attempts to take him into custody?

Are you going to repeat every anecdote listed in the report? That will get very tiring, very quickly.

Anecdote doesn't prove systemic racial bias in the entire police department.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Again: anecdote of individual examples of wrongdoing (and even racial bias) do not prove systemic racial bias in the entire department.

Antedotal? How so? This is admitted behavior backed up by what I assume are court filings. What you think this stuff is made up? Its either systematic, or there a few guys creating lots of headaches for black people. And there's no way other officers could possibly say they didn't know what was going on.

 

[chipbennett]

Antedotal? How so?

anecdote



[an-ik-doht]
Spell Syllables

• Synonyms
• Examples
• Word Origin

noun, plural anecdotes or for 2, anecdota [an-ik-doh-tuh] (Show IPA)

1.a short account of a particular incident or event, especially of aninteresting or amusing nature.

2.a short, obscure historical or biographical account.

This is admitted behavior backed up by what I assume are court filings. What you think this stuff is made up? Its either systematic, or there a few guys creating lots of headaches for black people. And there's no way other officers could possibly say they didn't know what was going on.

"Anecdote" != "made up"

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If you admit you locked them up primarily because they pissed you off then yes.

Being punched rarely puts me in a good mood. However its also against the law to punch me. I think you're assigning motives with insufficient proof.

I don't care that Hornady was banned, nor would I care if he wasn't banned. However, I don't see it as a "spite banning" even given only what we see on the surface.

 

[chipbennett]

Page 71: DOJ goes all-in on asserting that correlation proves causation:

These disparities provide significant evidence of discriminatory intent, as the “impact of an official action is often probative of why the action was taken in the first place since people usually intend the natural consequences of their actions.”

And more:

These disparities are unexplainable on grounds other than race and evidence that racial bias, whether implicit or explicit, has shaped law enforcement conduct.

Indeed, the disparities may be reasonably explained on the basis of race, if the black residents of Ferguson are committing crimes and civil infractions at a higher rate than the white residents of Ferguson. But so far, the report fails to address this point.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Are you going to repeat every anecdote listed in the report? That will get very tiring, very quickly.

Anecdote doesn't prove systemic racial bias in the entire police department.

How is it Antedotal? You may not know this, but running a check on someone leaves a time stamp. It is quite easy to find out when it was done, down to the minute, and who did it. And obviously, we are no longer in the "saw drunk, arrested same" era anymore. You arrest somebody there's going to be a report as to why. I think it's a fair bet the DOJ probably relied heavily on those reports.


Does anybody else want me to stop posting the contents from the report?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So there are seven examples included there. I'm sure it was an excellent use of my tax money for someone to comb through tens of thousands of emails, over several years, to find those seven examples.

It also doesn't look out of the ordinary from the similar such dirty laundry that would get aired from just about anywhere else, where there are people foolish enough to use public/work computers for such things.

How come the racist jokes against blacks are spelled out, but the ones about muslims are just hinted at? Seems like if you're going to parrot one, you should parrot them all...or just say "found racist jokes in an email in" and leave it at that.

 

[printcraft]

How come the racist jokes against blacks are spelled out, but the ones about muslims are just hinted at? Seems like if you're going to parrot one, you should parrot them all...or just say "found racist jokes in an email in" and leave it at that.

You need red meat to get the masses fired up. Pretty clear disparity and intent.

 

[Kutnupe14]

anecdote



[an-ik-doht]
Spell Syllables

• Synonyms
• Examples
• Word Origin

noun, plural anecdotes or for 2, anecdota [an-ik-doh-tuh] (Show IPA)

1.a short account of a particular incident or event, especially of aninteresting or amusing nature.

2.a short, obscure historical or biographical account.






"Anecdote" != "made up"

Made up? So these people weren't stopped and arrested, and the reports written by the arresting officers contradicts the DO Is findings? How about you give me an example of the stuff I've posted that is anecdotal? And we'll compare it to the actual written text of the report.

 

[chipbennett]

How is it Antedotal?

It is anecdotal by definition. (See definition, in previous post.)

You may not know this, but running a check on someone leaves a time stamp. It is quite easy to find out when it was done, down to the minute, and who did it. And obviously, we are no longer in the "saw drunk, arrested same" era anymore. You arrest somebody there's going to be a report as to why. I think it's a fair bet the DOJ probably relied heavily on those reports.

Yes, they are quite real incidents. That's what makes them anecdote, and not rumor or allegation or something other than anecdotal.

Does anybody else want me to stop posting the contents from the report?

Post all the contents you want, but please try to make a point that demonstrates that several anecdotal examples prove systemic racial bias in the department.

 

[chipbennett]

Made up? So these people weren't stopped and arrested, and the reports written by the arresting officers contradicts the DO Is findings? How about you give me an example of the stuff I've posted that is anecdotal? And we'll compare it to the actual written text of the report.

"!=" is enginerd shorthand for "not equal". So saying "anecdote" != "made up" is shorthand for "anecdote does not equal made up".

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Watch Live: Justice Department Issues Report on Ferguson - NBC News

 

[KLB]

How is it Antedotal? You may not know this, but running a check on someone leaves a time stamp. It is quite easy to find out when it was done, down to the minute, and who did it. And obviously, we are no longer in the "saw drunk, arrested same" era anymore. You arrest somebody there's going to be a report as to why. I think it's a fair bet the DOJ probably relied heavily on those reports.


Does anybody else want me to stop posting the contents from the report?

I accept the fact that the FPD does a lot of things wrong. They seem to like to trample on people's civil rights. The fact that more of these incidents happen to people of one race or another does not equate to happening because of the race. While it may be, the incidents are not proof in and of themselves.

A question on traffic stops. How easy is it for you to see the person you are going to stop before you do, especially at night?

 

[chipbennett]

Here's a fun one on page 75 (after listing several anecdotes about courts dismissing citations against government officials, court personnel, police personnel, and relatives):

These are just a few illustrative examples. It is clear that writing off tickets between the Ferguson court staff and the clerks of other municipal courts in the region is routine.

...yes. Just as it is routine in every municipality in the country. Has no one in DOJ ever actually lived in the real world?

 

[Kutnupe14]

I accept the fact that the FPD does a lot of things wrong. They seem to like to trample on people's civil rights. The fact that more of these incidents happen to people of one race or another does not equate to happening because of the race. While it may be, the incidents are not proof in and of themselves.

A question on traffic stops. How easy is it for you to see the person you are going to stop before you do, especially at night?

To see? That depends.... got a plate on your car? I bet I can make a pretty good guess.

If the numbers were spread out a little more equally, then I would agree. But since it blacks overwhelmingly bearing the brunt of "a lot of things FPD does wrong," then what's the excuse?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I accept the fact that the FPD does a lot of things wrong. They seem to like to trample on people's civil rights. The fact that more of these incidents happen to people of one race or another does not equate to happening because of the race. While it may be, the incidents are not proof in and of themselves.

A question on traffic stops. How easy is it for you to see the person you are going to stop before you do, especially at night?

Essentially impossible. Next time you are driving, just look around and see how often you can identify the race of other motorists around you. Even during the day, unless you are parked next to someone at a red light or they have zero tint and you can see their face in their mirror for the car directly in front of you, you probably won't.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

So Holder couldn't say Wilson killed Brown because he was a racist, so instead he says the whole community is racist.

 

[1911ly]

Holder is on the new right now. Talking about the FPD. I am hearing some pretty disturbing stuff.