The Ferguson thread

[Kutnupe14]

Video captures sergeant tasting a guy who made no aggressive movements. Guy falls to the ground, and the sergeant tases him continuously for TWENTY seconds. Officer says the guy was trying get up.... Video disproves that. He's arrested for failure to comply and resisting arrest... because after seeing him talking to a guy in a truck he declined to answer questions or be frisked.

 

[chipbennett]

To see? That depends.... got a plate on your car? I bet I can make a pretty good guess.

If the numbers were spread out a little more equally, then I would agree. But since it blacks overwhelmingly bearing the brunt of "a lot of things FPD does wrong," then what's the excuse?

Because the brunt of "a lot of things FPD does wrong" is logically focused on the brunt of where crimes and infractions are actually occurring. Would an area of known (black) gang activity not tend to skew statistics from the demographic breakdown, and lead to more interaction between police officers and black residents in areas of known gang activity?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Essentially impossible. Next time you are driving, just look around and see how often you can identify the race of other motorists around you. Even during the day, unless you are parked next to someone at a red light or they have zero tint and you can see their face in their mirror for the car directly in front of you, you probably won't.

Maybe I've been doing this job too long. I've never had an issue determining the race of a driver. At night it can be tricky in unlit areas, but during the day, never had an issue.

 

[T.Lex]

Video captures sergeant tasting a guy who made no aggressive movements.

Whoa whoa whoa. Is that still cruel and unusual or in this enlightened day of marriage amendments, have we moved past that sort of thing being taboo?

 

[chipbennett]

Video captures sergeant tasting a guy who made no aggressive movements. Guy falls to the ground, and the sergeant tases him continuously for TWENTY seconds. Officer says the guy was trying get up.... Video disproves that. He's arrested for failure to comply and resisting arrest... because after seeing him talking to a guy in a truck he declined to answer questions or be frisked.

Are there many urban municipalities where an investigation would NOT turn up several, similar anecdotes?

Two question I had originally remain:

1. Are the issues uncovered with FPD dissimilar to other, similar municipalities, or out-of-trend nationally?
2. Is there evidence that issues uncovered with FPD are racially biased/motivated?

 

[T.Lex]

Maybe I've been doing this job too long. I've never had an issue determining the race of a driver.

Really? How do you define race? In America, it is my pet peeve (welcome to my rant) that it is nigh impossible to determine someone's ancestry upon meeting them.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Because the brunt of "a lot of things FPD does wrong" is logically focused on the brunt of where crimes and infractions are actually occurring. Would an area of known (black) gang activity not tend to skew statistics from the demographic breakdown, and lead to more interaction between police officers and black residents in areas of known gang activity?

Where are the crimes happening in Ferguson? It's outlandish to think that a city that is less than 6.5 square miles has officers camping out on the black neighborhoods. And your making the assumption whites and blacks are segregated in Ferguson, which given the populace breakdown, would seem quite difficult to do.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Really? How do you define race? In America, it is my pet peeve (welcome to my rant) that it is nigh impossible to determine someone's ancestry upon meeting them.

Negroid, Caucazoid, and Mongoloid. The traditional breakdowns, very easy.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Are there many urban municipalities where an investigation would NOT turn up several, similar anecdotes?

Two question I had originally remain:

1. Are the issues uncovered with FPD dissimilar to other, similar municipalities, or out-of-trend nationally?
2. Is there evidence that issues uncovered with FPD are racially biased/motivated?

Evidence of racial bias? Where's that chart?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Prosecutors are now considering criminal charges against members of Michael Brown’s family

Prosecutors Mull Charges In Brown Family Attack | The Smoking Gun

 

[Doug]

How about this: no cross-racial interaction between police and non-police.
If you aren't the same race as the suspect, walk away.

 

[T.Lex]

Negroid, Caucazoid, and Mongoloid. The traditional breakdowns, very easy.

I have a friend with an American dad (of English/Irish/German descent) and Korean mom. Where does he fit in? (I don't think you've pulled him over.)

Back on a somewhat on-topic note, I believe the FPD is majority white officers policing an area that is majority African-American. An analysis of any statistics would have to take that into account.

Not saying that's good or bad, or that such an assessment was or wasn't done. Just saying that numbers alone aren't the whole story. Also, I remember reading that FPD had several police brutality issues before the current one.

 

[chipbennett]

Where are the crimes happening in Ferguson? It's outlandish to think that a city that is less than 6.5 square miles has officers camping out on the black neighborhoods. And your making the assumption whites and blacks are segregated in Ferguson, which given the populace breakdown, would seem quite difficult to do.

As low-income housing boomed, Ferguson pushed back : News

Please give that a read, if you want to understand the demographics and housing disparity/segregation in Ferguson.

The crime is concentrated in the high-density, low-income housing in a small part of Ferguson. Police activity is also concentrated in that area.

 

[chipbennett]

Prosecutors are now considering criminal charges against members of Michael Brown’s family

Prosecutors Mull Charges In Brown Family Attack | The Smoking Gun

It's about time.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I have a friend with an American dad (of English/Irish/German descent) and Korean mom. Where does he fit in? (I don't think you've pulled him over.)

Back on a somewhat on-topic note, I believe the FPD is majority white officers policing an area that is majority African-American. An analysis of any statistics would have to take that into account.

Not saying that's good or bad, or that such an assessment was or wasn't done. Just saying that numbers alone aren't the whole story. Also, I remember reading that FPD had several police brutality issues before the current one.

I have no idea what he'd be. I know Americans of a variety of colors. I know English of a variety of colors. I know Irish of a variety of colors. And yep, you guessed it I know Germans of a variety of colors. I know lots of Koreans too, but most are Asian, and the rest Blasian.

 

[T.Lex]

I have no idea what he'd be. I know Americans of a variety of colors. I know English of a variety of colors. I know Irish of a variety of colors. And yep, you guessed it I know Germans of a variety of colors. I know lots of Koreans too, but most are Asian, and the rest Blasian.

And you can tell upon meeting them their ancestry?

Race, in modern America, is a near-meaningless term. It is like the blue/black or gold/white dress thing. It is more an expression of subjective perception than actual fact.

You can express your perception upon meeting someone, not the fact of what race they are.

Yes, that is a bit of semantics, but semantics can be important. Again, this is my own pet peeve. (Back to lurking in this thread.)

 

[chipbennett]

And here's another question - one that is far more important in the grand scheme of things: would DOJ even be interested in the obvious pattern of constitutional abuses of FPD if they were unable to assert a racial bias to those abuses?

The abuses outlined in the DOJ report are rather unremarkable when compared to many/most municipal police departments across the country: that is, the abuses are fairly common. Such abuses are equally egregious whether or not they are carried out under a racial bias/motivation. But DOJ only involves themselves in a department where they can make a claim of racial bias/motivation.

 

[Kutnupe14]

And you can tell upon meeting them their ancestry?

Race, in modern America, is a near-meaningless term. It is like the blue/black or gold/white dress thing. It is more an expression of subjective perception than actual fact.

You can express your perception upon meeting someone, not the fact of what race they are.

Yes, that is a bit of semantics, but semantics can be important. Again, this is my own pet peeve. (Back to lurking in this thread.)

So how have you enjoyed your first week in the United States Mr. Lex? Our country is obsessed with race, and I've often wondered if it's really all that bad a thing. Europe has a serious race problem, but they never really talk about it. Did you see the vid of Chelsea fans pushing the black guy off the subway. It was baffling to watch. A friend of mine joked, "our white people would never do that." I was funny, but it was true. We, Americans, probably have a better racial understanding than anybody else.

But anyways, yeah. I can look in a car while driving, and go... "black guy.... Asian guy..... Hispanic guy.... white woman." During the day, not an issue at all. At night, tricky, but really not all that difficult. I think most officers can.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Aw man. Guys, pretend I posted this like 10 pages ago. Woulda been perfect timing.

 

[KLB]

So how have you enjoyed your first week in the United States Mr. Lex? Our country is obsessed with race, and I've often wondered if it's really all that bad a thing. Europe has a serious race problem, but they never really talk about it. Did you see the vid of Chelsea fans pushing the black guy off the subway. It was baffling to watch. A friend of mine joked, "our white people would never do that." I was funny, but it was true. We, Americans, probably have a better racial understanding than anybody else.

But anyways, yeah. I can look in a car while driving, and go... "black guy.... Asian guy..... Hispanic guy.... white woman." During the day, not an issue at all. At night, tricky, but really not all that difficult. I think most officers can.

And your assertion is that in Ferguson the police drive around looking for Black people driving cars and then pull them over?

Do you sit with a radar gun and give speeding tickets? Do you find it easy to identify the race of the driver before you decide whether to pull them over?