The Democrat Primary Race Is Filling Up

[jamil]

Well, you see, the leader of the popular vote for the Republicans in 2016 was...


The leader of the party doesn't define the identity of all the members.


I get it, the bozos on stage are the enemy. But not everyone that identifies as Democrat are as far off the end as the leaders. I certainly don't want to identify with Trump, yet he's my party's choice.


And I wonder if there's a time coming (maybe soon) where the two parties split so far apart that another party springs up to grab the growing "enlightened centrist" who just can't stand the extremism and constant partisan politics. We've gotten to the point where a centrist/moderate who's a viable candidate (e.g. Tulsi, Kasich) in the general election just can't get past the primaries.

I saw a poll fairly recently that showed the middle is shrinking. People are joining the fringes.

 

[Alpo]

Sweden isn't a socialist economy. It's mixed. But it is primarily a free market mixed with some public ownership. Let's keep the conversation about socialist countries' success stories to actual socialist countries.

Dude. It's a socialist country. You sometimes come out with these didactic comments that you aren't called on.

I'm calling you on this one.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I saw a poll fairly recently that showed the middle is shrinking. People are joining the fringes.

This one's kinda old... but shows the trend

 

[T.Lex]

I saw a poll fairly recently that showed the middle is shrinking. People are joining the fringes.

There's a poli sci professor gaining attention for the position that there is no middle anymore. At least not a statistically meaningful one. National elections are purely an exercise in Get Out The Vote (GOTV) mechanics.

I'm not completely on board with the full position, but - to your point - the "middle" (if it exists) doesn't mean much anymore. Only the angry vote.

 

[jamil]

[...}
We've gotten to the point where a centrist/moderate who's a viable candidate (e.g. Tulsi, Kasich) in the general election just can't get past the primaries.

Oh. And about this. I have a theory that in divided times there are more radical candidates who gain cult-like cultural following. Our primary system is like a determinant system that favors that for reasons I described earlier. Moderates in a crowded field where the support is spread out, don't stand a chance against more radical candidates with a lot of fiercely loyal supporters. That kind of candidate with maybe 15-20% support of undying loyalty is going to rack up the delegates early on, and then peel off some support from candidates who drop out along the way.

 

[jamil]

Dude. It's a socialist country. You sometimes come out with these didactic comments that you aren't called on.

I'm calling you on this one.

Uh. I think you might want to google that. I didn't pull it from my ass. Sweeden has a free market economy. It owns some means of production but is not primarily socialist. Unless you're saying a democratic socialist nation just has a lot of social programs. But that's not socialism.

 

[JettaKnight]

Oh. And about this. I have a theory that in divided times there are more radical candidates who gain cult-like cultural following. Our primary system is like a determinant system that favors that for reasons I described earlier. Moderates in a crowded field where the support is spread out, don't stand a chance against more radical candidates with a lot of fiercely loyal supporters. That kind of candidate with maybe 15-20% support of undying loyalty is going to rack up the delegates early on, and then peel off some support from candidates who drop out along the way.

Seems to be playing out that way.


I can't see the long term prognosis for such a thing being good. We'll either get into an underdamped oscillation, or we'll end up with a progression of leaders that move toward a dictatorship, similar to the affairs of Russia right now.

 

[JettaKnight]

Uh. I think you might want to google that. I didn't pull it from my ass. Sweeden has a free market economy. It owns some means of production but is not primarily socialist. Unless you're saying a democratic socialist nation just has a lot of social programs. But that's not socialism.

Didn't we go over all this in the "democrats are communist" thread a couple of month ago?

 

[jamil]

Seems to be playing out that way.


I can't see the long term prognosis for such a thing being good. We'll either get into an underdamped oscillation, or we'll end up with a progression of leaders that move toward a dictatorship, similar to the affairs of Russia right now.

Maybe if we have enough "sane" people that become fed up with it, maybe we can stop it. This is kinda happening with cancel culture. Enough people on board with cancel culture gets canceled themselves and then turn against it, I think the SJW's have kinda lost part of the mob power. So that's encouraging.

 

[jamil]

Didn't we go over all this in the "democrats are communist" thread a couple of month ago?

We go over lots of things over and over and over.

 

[Brad69]

I think we need to refight the subject!

We might find the answer?

 

[printcraft]

We go over lots of things over and over and over.

As I recall crimson and clover was never settled.

 

[Brad69]

Thanks Printcraft now that song is playing in my head!

 

[printcraft]

Thanks Printcraft now that song is playing in my head!

and it will be, over and over...

 

[BugI02]

If that question was directed at me, I don't see any of those candidates last night beating Trump. MAYBE Mayor Pete, in a Kennedy-esque way. (Yeah yeah yeah, Lloyd Bentsen knew Jack Kennedy, and Pete's no Jack Kennedy.)

They'll all lose the general election to Trump, at least that's the way I see it.

Well, then. Obviously time for revanchist elements on the fringes of the Republican party to try to weaken him with third party candidacies

Although the Clinton whine about Jill Stein has gotten a lot of play, it is less commonly known that Stein siphoned off only a bit more than 1.4 million votes from The Harpy but Constitutionalist Party, Libertarian and whatever- McMullin -was party challenges together siphoned just shy of 5 million potential Trump votes - enough to overcome The Evil One's lead in the popular vote even if you gave her the Stein votes

I fully expect some version of this strategy to be tried again by dead-ender neverTrumps

 

[Alpo]

Uh. I think you might want to google that. I didn't pull it from my ass. Sweeden has a free market economy. It owns some means of production but is not primarily socialist. Unless you're saying a democratic socialist nation just has a lot of social programs. But that's not socialism.

That's one part of the puzzle, but not the whole pie. Look at income taxes, consumption taxes and social welfare programs.

By your definition, China would be an emerging democracy.

 

[Ingomike]

Well, you see, the leader of the popular vote for the Republicans in 2016 was...


The leader of the party doesn't define the identity of all the members.


I get it, the bozos on stage are the enemy. But not everyone that identifies as Democrat are as far off the end as the leaders. I certainly don't want to identify with Trump, yet he's my party's choice.


And I wonder if there's a time coming (maybe soon) where the two parties split so far apart that another party springs up to grab the growing "enlightened centrist" who just can't stand the extremism and constant partisan politics. We've gotten to the point where a centrist/moderate who's a viable candidate (e.g. Tulsi, Kasich) in the general election just can't get past the primaries.

That was how we were governed, albeit without the other party, for years. If the middle dems and repubs wanted something it got done, no matter the extreme parts of the parties. Rarely was something done without some accross the isle support.

Not so today as evidenced by impeachment, near party line voting.

My question is based on the fact the parties no longer even agree on the destination, how can there be "bipartisanship" on details of the journey?

They used to believe in the same principles but fought over how to implement them, just not the case today, completely different principles...

 

[BugI02]

I dunno - Democrats, as a group, hate Trump. That's about the only thing you can state unequivocally.


As to, "don't believe that capitalism is worth supporting", well that's a hardcore progressive thing. Plenty of traditional democrat voters (think union, pro-choice types) aren't on board with socialism yet.


I'd expect a lot of democrats will be "reluctant Bloomies" the same way that many of us are "reluctant Trumpers". Do what it takes to get control of the oval office, no matter how much you disagree with the person you put in there.

The thing is Bloomberg is kind of Trump's anti-particle, the same in all respects (from a leftist point of view) except of opposite charge. I don't see him catching fire with the activist wing. Given a choice between Trump, who now has a proven record of accomplishment, and Bloomberg, who seems like Trump light, I don't see that many centrists jumping on that bandwagon

 

[Ingomike]

Oh. And about this. I have a theory that in divided times there are more radical candidates who gain cult-like cultural following. Our primary system is like a determinant system that favors that for reasons I described earlier. Moderates in a crowded field where the support is spread out, don't stand a chance against more radical candidates with a lot of fiercely loyal supporters. That kind of candidate with maybe 15-20% support of undying loyalty is going to rack up the delegates early on, and then peel off some support from candidates who drop out along the way.

And just who created the division? Are conservatives more or less conservative? Are so called dems more or less radical.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I’m making a prediction now, if Bloomberg or Bernie win the nomination, Trump will be re-elected. I, personally, as much as I dislike Trump, Can’t in good conscience vote for either. I know a lot of people who hold the same opinion. “Stop and Frisk,” and “Free @$&# for everyone,” doesn’t work for me.