The CZIckness XVII.....As we gather together

[Hoosier45]

Morning Mr. Wiz and RK.

 

[llh1956]

Morning BA, RK H45!

 

[Hoosier45]

Crazy day at the farm?

 

[Benp]

So I'll pose a gun question this morning. Between a safety and a decocker, is there any difference in the feel of the trigger? It's my understanding that the decocker makes it more difficult to work on if one were going to upgrade parts and do some polishing, but otherwise do the triggers feel the same or is a difference detected? I say this while thinking about a P-01, but I imagine the answer would be true across the board.

 

[Benp]

Also, good morning all!

 

[rkwhyte2]

Morning Ben don't have an answer for ya as all mine are decockers. I do know the sear cage for the decocker guns is a pain to work with but that is all I do know.

 

[Hopper]

So I'll pose a gun question this morning. Between a safety and a decocker, is there any difference in the feel of the trigger? It's my understanding that the decocker makes it more difficult to work on if one were going to upgrade parts and do some polishing, but otherwise do the triggers feel the same or is a difference detected? I say this while thinking about a P-01, but I imagine the answer would be true across the board.

The Wizard would be best to answer this question, but your presumptions are correct. The decocker has more going on, and especially with the DA experience, doesn't have as good a feel as a safety model (extra parts and springs being involved).

That said, The Wiz did up my P-01, and I did my own work on the PCR with the CGW Ultra-Lite Kit (which I would consider the bare basics of a CZ upgrade, but it addresses most of the important things in an affordable, easy-to-install setup). The P-01 is hands-down the better trigger, as The Wizard installed the full monty of Cajun parts except for the reach reduction kit, as my long piano fingers didn't need it.

Long story short, even with the ultra-lite kit installed, a decocker model can be a different gun. However, installing the same ultra-lite kit in my son's all-steel (safety model) 75B Compact yielded slightly better results, as his model doesn't have the extras that ride along in the decocker model.

 

[churchmouse]

The Wizard would be best to answer this question, but your presumptions are correct. The decocker has more going on, and especially with the DA experience, doesn't have as good a feel as a safety model (extra parts and springs being involved).

That said, The Wiz did up my P-01, and I did my own work on the PCR with the CGW Ultra-Lite Kit (which I would consider the bare basics of a CZ upgrade, but it addresses most of the important things in an affordable, easy-to-install setup). The P-01 is hands-down the better trigger, as The Wizard installed the full monty of Cajun parts except for the reach reduction kit, as my long piano fingers didn't need it.

Long story short, even with the ultra-lite kit installed, a decocker model can be a different gun. However, installing the same ultra-lite kit in my son's all-steel (safety model) 75B Compact yielded slightly better results, as his model doesn't have the extras that ride along in the decocker model.

One must also realize that the Wizard does some pretty extensive polishing in areas we are not aware of.

And not unlike a 80 series 1911 with the asinine trigger block there is just more bits/pieces to move when one applies the trigger in a De-cocker piece.

 

[Benp]

This makes sense! The more moving pieces means more friction. Even if the parts are polished there is still going to be more resistance than not having those parts moving.

 

[churchmouse]

This makes sense! The more moving pieces means more friction. Even if the parts are polished there is still going to be more resistance than not having those parts moving.

Bingo.

 

[SarahG]

Good morning, everyone!

I was up late last night, so I’m getting a late start to my day. The only bad part of sleeping in is less time to do things before I head into work.

I’m enjoying reading about decocker vs. safety triggers as I don’t know much at all about the subject. Before this CZ I’ve only ever had or shot striker fired tupperware guns.

 

[hANNAbONE]

CZ makes for a whole new world, Sarah...
Enjoy the ride.

 

[llh1956]

Crazy day at the farm?

One big cluster****!!!!

 

[King31]

Updated family pic for all the CZickos! Had a great day Sunday putting about 50 rounds through each one. I really enjoy the P06. A P-01 or a PCR will likely be my next addition. Little late posting as I've worked 27 hours since Monday morning at 6. Haha hope everyone has a great day. Time to get some shuteye for another unexpected night shift.

 

[churchmouse]

Updated family pic for all the CZickos! Had a great day Sunday putting about 50 rounds through each one. I really enjoy the P06. A P-01 or a PCR will likely be my next addition. Little late posting as I've worked 27 hours since Monday morning at 6. Haha hope everyone has a great day. Time to get some shuteye for another unexpected night shift.

Very nice "But"......I am not seeing a 97 in the group....

 

[Benp]

Updated family pic for all the CZickos! Had a great day Sunday putting about 50 rounds through each one. I really enjoy the P06. A P-01 or a PCR will likely be my next addition. Little late posting as I've worked 27 hours since Monday morning at 6. Haha hope everyone has a great day. Time to get some shuteye for another unexpected night shift.

Thanks for the pic, King! Mighty fine grouping there!

 

[gmcttr]

So I'll pose a gun question this morning. Between a safety and a decocker, is there any difference in the feel of the trigger? It's my understanding that the decocker makes it more difficult to work on if one were going to upgrade parts and do some polishing, but otherwise do the triggers feel the same or is a difference detected? I say this while thinking about a P-01, but I imagine the answer would be true across the board.

This makes sense! The more moving pieces means more friction. Even if the parts are polished there is still going to be more resistance than not having those parts moving.

Trying to work this out in my mind, I couldn't think of any parts in a decocker vs safety model that move during the trigger pull.

So I pulled the slides off of a Shadow 2 (safety) and two P-01's (decocker) in order to watch the actions move.

Both models have either a decocker lever or an equivalent piece that I'll call the safety lever in the same position inside the sear cage.

Both models appear to operate the same in SA with the exception that the Shadow 2 does not have a firing pin block plunger and the associated FPB lifter.

During a DA trigger pull the Shadow 2 safety lever is moved while in the two P-01's, the decocker lever moves slightly in one and not at all in the other. Same # of parts moving or one less part moving in one P-01 decocker. I see no additional movement of parts or points of friction between these two models in SA or DA.

However, the Shadow 2 easily has a smoother DA pull through out the range of motion, while the SA pulls feel equally as good. This may or may not ​be due to differences in geometry from the different disconnectors. The FPB lifter only comes into play at the end of the pull and is not really noticeable in DA. All 3 pistols have similar pull weights.

Short version...I don't see any mechanical differences that would effect the ultimate ability of either system to have an equally good "trigger".

Looking at CZ schematics, some models have other variations of internals.

I'm interested in hearing the Wizards thoughts on this.

 

[Benp]

Trying to work this out in my mind, I couldn't think of any parts in a decocker vs safety model that move during the trigger pull.

So I pulled the slides off of a Shadow 2 (safety) and two P-01's (decocker) in order to watch the actions move.

Both models have either a decocker lever or an equivalent piece that I'll call the safety lever in the same position inside the sear cage.

Both models appear to operate the same in SA with the exception that the Shadow 2 does not have a firing pin block plunger and the associated FPB lifter.

During a DA trigger pull the Shadow 2 safety lever is moved while in the two P-01's, the decocker lever moves slightly in one and not at all in the other. Same # of parts moving or one less part moving in one P-01 decocker. I see no additional movement of parts or points of friction between these two models in SA or DA.

However, the Shadow 2 easily has a smoother DA pull through out the range of motion, while the SA pulls feel equally as good. This may or may not ​be due to differences in geometry from the different disconnectors. The FPB lifter only comes into play at the end of the pull and is not really noticeable in DA. All 3 pistols have similar pull weights.

Short version...I don't see any mechanical differences that would effect the ultimate ability of either system to have an equally good "trigger".

Looking at CZ schematics, some models have other variations of internals.

I'm interested in hearing the Wizards thoughts on this.

Interesting! That was another aspect that I was wondering, how much of a difference in trigger can you actually detect between the two?
So the only time that you would use the DA pull on a safety model would be if the first round didn't ignite and you are going to have a second attempt at it? Otherwise you would have to be lowering the hammer on a live round in order to use DA, correct? If that is the case then I think I would rather have it converted over to SAO since those have even better triggers, or so I hear. Thoughts?

 

[Benp]

Where is the Wizard?! Working??!!

 

[MindfulMan]

Where is the Wizard?! Working??!!

I doubt that the Wizard works ..... in the traditional sense.
He conjures up awesome sauce .... to apply where needed !