The CZIckness XVII.....As we gather together

[gmcttr]

Interesting! That was another aspect that I was wondering, how much of a difference in trigger can you actually detect between the two?...

I should have noted that both of the P-01's are full of CGW parts, one done by me and one by Wizard and the Shadow 2 is stock (awaiting CGW parts I've had for months).

There is VERY little difference in feel between the 3 in SA and the Shadow 2 has a noticeably smoother DA.

 

[88E30M50]

I’ve had my hand in the internals of quite a few decockers and safety equipped CZ and my take is that the decocker could potentially result in a better trigger in some circumstances. Like gmcttr says above, the mechanical action of the safety and decocker models is near identical when the trigger is pulled in either DA or SA. Where I think the decocker may hold the advantage is that the sear cage pin in the decocker models is longer and engages the frame, eliminating the possibility of the sear cage moving, and impacting the trigger. I have an early pre-B that has this exact issue and the trigger is not near as good as it can be because the whole sear cage moves when you pull the trigger. That just does not happen when the sear pin also engages the frame.

Engaging the frame is also what makes decockers such a pain to work on. Another potential benefit of the decocker models is that the sear only engages a single hammer hook, and not two hooks as on safety equipped versions. I’m not sure if this is better or worse though. On one hand, there’s less material to create drag but there is also less material, so it could increase the sear/hammer pressure at that point.

 

[mcapo]

While there may be a more technical answer, my very very limited experience with CZ's tells me that, in order to get a truly great trigger, it has less to do with decocker or safety than how the tolerances stack up in a particular firearm.


.....someone finally got Whitey...

 

[churchmouse]

I’ve had my hand in the internals of quite a few decockers and safety equipped CZ and my take is that the decocker could potentially result in a better trigger in some circumstances. Like gmcttr says above, the mechanical action of the safety and decocker models is near identical when the trigger is pulled in either DA or SA. Where I think the decocker may hold the advantage is that the sear cage pin in the decocker models is longer and engages the frame, eliminating the possibility of the sear cage moving, and impacting the trigger. I have an early pre-B that has this exact issue and the trigger is not near as good as it can be because the whole sear cage moves when you pull the trigger. That just does not happen when the sear pin also engages the frame.

Engaging the frame is also what makes decockers such a pain to work on. Another potential benefit of the decocker models is that the sear only engages a single hammer hook, and not two hooks as on safety equipped versions. I’m not sure if this is better or worse though. On one hand, there’s less material to create drag but there is also less material, so it could increase the sear/hammer pressure at that point.

Interesting.

 

[Benp]

I’ve had my hand in the internals of quite a few decockers and safety equipped CZ and my take is that the decocker could potentially result in a better trigger in some circumstances. Like gmcttr says above, the mechanical action of the safety and decocker models is near identical when the trigger is pulled in either DA or SA. Where I think the decocker may hold the advantage is that the sear cage pin in the decocker models is longer and engages the frame, eliminating the possibility of the sear cage moving, and impacting the trigger. I have an early pre-B that has this exact issue and the trigger is not near as good as it can be because the whole sear cage moves when you pull the trigger. That just does not happen when the sear pin also engages the frame.

Engaging the frame is also what makes decockers such a pain to work on. Another potential benefit of the decocker models is that the sear only engages a single hammer hook, and not two hooks as on safety equipped versions. I’m not sure if this is better or worse though. On one hand, there’s less material to create drag but there is also less material, so it could increase the sear/hammer pressure at that point.

Tim, you're bringing up aspects that are very interesting! Things I had no idea about, but I would like to know more about. I like that gif that mcapo put up a while back that show the mechanics of a P-09. I go back to it every now and then and just watch it go.

 

[88E30M50]

Interesting.

Yup, just like a 1911, the decocker models have both the sear and hammer pins consistently indexed by frame based mounting holes. In the majority of safety based versions, this makes little difference if the sear cage is tightly fit to the frame, but I have proof that they are not always tightly fit.

 

[churchmouse]

Yup, just like a 1911, the decocker models have both the sear and hammer pins consistently indexed by frame based mounting holes. In the majority of safety based versions, this makes little difference if the sear cage is tightly fit to the frame, but I have proof that they are not always tightly fit.

I will admit that my overall operating knowledge of the CZ is limited to the few I have dismantled and repaired and the cleaning of my own. I know a guy that deals with the cool I/we have done to them. Now we can do some very serious discussion on my favorite platform to work on. In that an 80 series 1911 is tougher to get a good solid trigger on than a 70 series especially a Kimber. There is far more happening when you engage the trigger on an 80 series and it is all dumb for the most part.

 

[churchmouse]

While there may be a more technical answer, my very very limited experience with CZ's tells me that, in order to get a truly great trigger, it has less to do with decocker or safety than how the tolerances stack up in a particular firearm.


.....someone finally got Whitey...

Yeah but the man was 89 years old.

 

[Benp]

Sometimes I have the problem of not being afraid to take something apart. If I can see how I dismantle it then I can put it back together. The big problem is when I'm looking in one direction and then a spring flies from a place where I was not expecting. I suspect that at some point I'll get a CZ with a decocker and attempt to take it down polish and put back together. I know that I have a big knowledge base here to help if/when I need the help, which is really a confidence booster.

 

[rkwhyte2]

Sometimes I have the problem of not being afraid to take something apart. If I can see how I dismantle it then I can put it back together. The big problem is when I'm looking in one direction and then a spring flies from a place where I was not expecting. I suspect that at some point I'll get a CZ with a decocker and attempt to take it down polish and put back together. I know that I have a big knowledge base here to help if/when I need the help, which is really a confidence booster.

Disassemble and reassembly in a large plastic bag to contain the little flying springs.

 

[gmcttr]

Sometimes I have the problem of not being afraid to take something apart. If I can see how I dismantle it then I can put it back together. The big problem is when I'm looking in one direction and then a spring flies from a place where I was not expecting. I suspect that at some point I'll get a CZ with a decocker and attempt to take it down polish and put back together...

Before you take it down, go ahead and buy a few [STRIKE]F*** Me springs[/STRIKE] FPB Lifter V-springs. The trigger return spring can be launched as well.

You will also need to make or buy a slave pin for the sear cage assembly. One end should be slightly rounded or chamfered.

 

[Benp]

Disassemble and reassembly in a large plastic bag to contain the little flying springs.

So I will also have a time limit before my air runs out. This will help motivate me by giving me a sense of urgency, I like your thinking! Or were you saying just put the gun only in the bag before disassembly? LOL
I like this tip a lot! Thanks!

 

[Benp]

Before you take it down, go ahead and buy a few [STRIKE]F*** Me springs[/STRIKE] FPB Lifter V-springs. The trigger return spring can be launched as well.

You will also need to make or buy a slave pin for the sear cage assembly. One end should be slightly rounded or chamfered.

Thanks for the tip! Buying several while getting the CGW parts would be perfect.
Hopefully I'll be able to get a P-01 next year or getting a an old pre-b would be good too. I'm not in a hurry and I'm enjoying the CZ ride.

 

[rkwhyte2]

So I will also have a time limit before my air runs out. This will help motivate me by giving me a sense of urgency, I like your thinking! Or were you saying just put the gun only in the bag before disassembly? LOL
I like this tip a lot! Thanks!

Well either would work I guess but really just a bag for the sear cage as it seems to be the one piece that gives folks fits.

 

[MindfulMan]

So I will also have a time limit before my air runs out. This will help motivate me by giving me a sense of urgency, I like your thinking! Or were you saying just put the gun only in the bag before disassembly? LOL
I like this tip a lot! Thanks!

 

[mcapo]

So I will also have a time limit before my air runs out. This will help motivate me by giving me a sense of urgency, I like your thinking! Or were you saying just put the gun only in the bag before disassembly? LOL
I like this tip a lot! Thanks!

I was thinking I would check back in here and read "Striker v. Decocker Trigger War 2.0" and everyone is just having a good time instead.

 

[hANNAbONE]

we all play nice...sometimes.!!

 

[SarahG]

I hope one day I’m confident enough to work on my own guns. Until then I’ll take them to someone else. I don’t have anyone around me who works on guns and definitely don’t trust trying to learn from YouTube videos at this point.

I’d love to just hangout and observe some of you guys take them apart and install new parts.

 

[WebSnyper]

I doubt that the Wizard works ..... in the traditional sense.
He conjures up awesome sauce .... to apply where needed !

Too bad he doesn't work on backs MM, or you and I would have to be off to see the wizard and take care of a few things. We could go from this to thisbut MM would probably come out like this:

 

[doddg]

I already had a CZ P-01, so this one was just because it was for sale and partly because I wanted to see how my own handy work compared to the Wizard's.

At the risk of being blasphemes, I feel mine compares favorably to this 'new to me' Wizard P-01.



SarahG is getting the aluminum grips, but other than that, I told TT that If you or he wanted it back, I would oblige that request at any time.

It was understood up front that I am only a caretaker for the group.

So I know the history, did you buy it new and when? Thanks.

1. This is a perfect example of why I love to read this thread and read about the history of a particular gun.
2. I know the Rami I have has been with at least 3 of the members here, but I don't talk about people anymore since some don't want to be mentioned.
3. I love the history of a gun. I don't know if the 3rd owner back bought it new or got it from a 4th person.
4. Ironically, the Rami I own now I have owned twice. A story noone will ever know, and you know how I love to tell a story.