The (Current year) General Political/Salma Hayek discussion Thread Part V

[Kutnupe14]

We don't really have a general "economy" thread... so just dropping this here anyway, could be election-related?

Major CEOs that stepped down in the past month:

Disney, Mastercard, LBrands, Uber Eats, Hulu, MGM, IBM, LinkedIn, Salesforce, Morgan Stanley, Nestle, co-founder of BlackRock...

Also notable:

Decline in valuations in past 2 days:

Apple: -$110 billion
Microsoft: -$80 billion
Google: -$66 billion
Amazon: -$61 billion
Facebook: -$38 billion
Tesla: -$19 billion
Alibaba: -$18 billion
Netflix: -$9 billion
Uber: -$8 billion

Yep, Dow is down 800 already today. I wonder if those who gave the president credit for the Dow’s bull run, are now going to place blame in him for it.

 

[Ingomike]

It's an op ed. It's opinion. That some people take it as "news" is the fault of the idiots who take it as news.

Defamation and liable law does not divide between permissible opinion and fact based articles. If something is stated as fact, even if in an opinion article one can be held to have defamed.

Folks should realize that they could be sued for what they post here about someone, and believe to be opinion, if they recklessly and knowingly present as fact something they know and can be proven they know to be true.

 

[Ingomike]

Yep, Dow is down 800 already today. I wonder if those who gave the president credit for the Dow’s bull run, are now going to place blame in him for it.

NO!!!

The market is pricing in two big things, Coronavirus and the likelihood an avowed socialist is nominated increasing risk to the companies. The health sector has been leads the downtown because it is affected by both issues.

What on earth would one blame the President for on this?

It would be fair if some wanted to blame the Presidents response to Coronavirus but I personally do not fault it.

 

[Alpo]

NO!!!

The market is pricing in two big things, Coronavirus and the likelihood an avowed socialist is nominated increasing risk to the companies. The health sector has been leads the downtown because it is affected by both issues.

What on earth would one blame the President for on this?

It would be fair if some wanted to blame the Presidents response to Coronavirus but I personally do not fault it.

You now see the other edge to the sword. A president who claims responsibility for the success of the market will be judged BY VOTERS for market failures as well.

It would be somewhat ironic if Trump lost in 2020 because of a virus. Fitting, but ironic.

 

[jamil]

Yep, Dow is down 800 already today. I wonder if those who gave the president credit for the Dow’s bull run, are now going to place blame in him for it.

You have to look at what contributed to the ups and downs. Things are a hell of a lot friendlier now for small businesses than they were before Trump took office. The climate has been good for business all the way around. So there are some things attributable to that. But, the downturn is because of the COVID19 scare. And you know it.

 

[jamil]

You now see the other edge to the sword. A president who claims responsibility for the success of the market will be judged BY VOTERS for market failures as well.

It would be somewhat ironic if Trump lost in 2020 because of a virus. Fitting, but ironic.

If the market sinks and the economy stalls, the voters will want a change. That's the way it is. Many people blame Hurricane Sandy for Romney's loss. He had some momentum going into that final week. Then Sandy came along, and he pretty much stopped campaigning. Like a ****ing idiot. That wasn't necessarily a market thing. Just another thing where external forces screws someone out of support of the people.

 

[BugI02]

Yep, Dow is down 800 already today. I wonder if those who gave the president credit for the Dow’s bull run, are now going to place blame in him for it.

I don't think so. This is an artificial downturn generated more by the shortcomings of the PRC than any true market forces. It may actually work to his favor by blame being heavily apportioned to China and to companies who were too dependent on cheap Chinese production in their supply chains, plus seriously weakening China economically. If I was him, I would hammer the Chinese as the source of all the current problems - no need to stroke their collective egos right now because a trade deal is going nowhere in the near future. I predict Trump will get the credit for taking us to the highs but China will get the blme for taking us to the lows (and the market needed a shake-out anyway). Played correctly this thing can result in the repatriation of even more manufacturing onshore. If people aren't appalled when they realize how much production of everyday drugs has been farmed out to an unreliable supplier, then they will deserve what they get

 

[Kutnupe14]

You have to look at what contributed to the ups and downs. Things are a hell of a lot friendlier now for small businesses than they were before Trump took office. The climate has been good for business all the way around. So there are some things attributable to that. But, the downturn is because of the COVID19 scare. And you know it.

So what is the president going to do to make it go back up again like he did last time?

 

[Kutnupe14]

If the market sinks and the economy stalls, the voters will want a change. That's the way it is. Many people blame Hurricane Sandy for Romney's loss. He had some momentum going into that final week. Then Sandy came along, and he pretty much stopped campaigning. Like a ****ing idiot. That wasn't necessarily a market thing. Just another thing where external forces screws someone out of support of the people.

Is that the president's fault?

 

[jamil]

So what is the president going to do to make it go back up again like he did last time?

I'm not saying Trump made the economy go up. I'm saying that he changed policies to make the market friendlier for business, which is likely to have helped the economy, perhaps a lot.

When something outside of America's control happens, like a deadly pandemic from China starts stoking fears worldwide, and we're no longer receiving the goods from China that we so much depend on, that's obviously going to throw a wrench in the economy. Perhaps beyond anyone's control to fix. It may be something we just have to wait on to get sorted out.

But, Trump could use this to promote his idea that manufacturing should be done here, to to the extent practical, to avoid these kinds of external influences.

 

[jamil]

Is that the president's fault?

It is if the president's policies stifle commerce, sure. It's that president's fault. So, if, say, a president pushes for and gets passed, legislation which requires every business with more than 50 employees to provide health insurance, that would tend to make businesses want to make their 50 employees stretch as far as they can before adding that 51st. I think that would tend to restrict employment overall for small businesses. So that's one example of how policy can affect the economy.

However, if commerce is hindered by, say, a worldwide pandemic, ****'s gonna happen. You know how to look for root causes, right?

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm not saying Trump made the economy go up. I'm saying that he changed policies to make the market friendlier for business, which is likely to have helped the economy, perhaps a lot.

When something outside of America's control happens, like a deadly pandemic from China starts stoking fears worldwide, and we're no longer receiving the goods from China that we so much depend on, that's obviously going to throw a wrench in the economy. Perhaps beyond anyone's control to fix. It may be something we just have to wait on to get sorted out.

But, Trump could use this to promote his idea that manufacturing should be done here, to to the extent practical, to avoid these kinds of external influences.

Ok progress. So by that notion is it possible that some of his policies also may have compounded the negative effects of the coronavirus and contributed to the economic downturn?

 

[jamil]

Ok progress. So by that notion is it possible that some of his policies also may have compounded the negative effects of the coronavirus and contributed to the economic downturn?

Well, I kinda thought that was where you were going with it. But can you point to any specific policies which would make the outcome we're experiencing apparently avoidable? Every country is faced with the same problem now. You either close down your borders (some have) which will basically crush your economy, or you keep it wide open and hope for the best, or you try something in between to strike a balance between keeping the country safe and keeping the economy moving.

In this case, given the proportions of infections per capita for all the nations who have citizens infected, the US is doing pretty well, especially for having such a large international reach. Those shipments aren't getting here mainly because they're not being shipped. China is crippled right now and that's not the fault of US policy. It's their own jug****. This is on China.

ETA: more specifically to the point, Trump's goals for china are to make more **** here. If we made **** here we would be less dependent on a healthy china to ship us our cheap **** from China.

 

[Alpo]

ETA: more specifically to the point, Trump's goals for china are to make more **** here. If we made **** here we would be less dependent on a healthy china to ship us our cheap **** from China.

Not so easy. China spent decades establishing close proximity supply chains and developing manufacturing competency and engineering skills.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Well, I kinda thought that was where you were going with it. But can you point to any specific policies which would make the outcome we're experiencing apparently avoidable? Every country is faced with the same problem now. You either close down your borders (some have) which will basically crush your economy, or you keep it wide open and hope for the best, or you try something in between to strike a balance between keeping the country safe and keeping the economy moving.

In this case, given the proportions of infections per capita for all the nations who have citizens infected, the US is doing pretty well, especially for having such a large international reach. Those shipments aren't getting here mainly because they're not being shipped. China is crippled right now and that's not the fault of US policy. It's their own jug****. This is on China.

ETA: more specifically to the point, Trump's goals for china are to make more **** here. If we made **** here we would be less dependent on a healthy china to ship us our cheap **** from China.

The First World drives the world economy, and when problems arise which threaten the economic health of the planet, they are assumed to have the infrastructure to stave off those concerns. Being ill prepared, or showing disinterest in certain sectors, can be an issue when major incidents occur. One could say that the way this administration has handled The CDC and HHS, specifically with it's intent to severely cut those programs, might be one such contributing issue. The administration slashing the CDC's, global disease outbreak program by 80% (2018), seems like one of those issues.

Further, engaging in an ill-advised trade war with China would, if successful, require China pay a significantly larger amount to do business with the United States. Does one think that money comes the places, in China, best able to fight off a contagious disease outbreak?

 

[printcraft]

The First World drives the world economy, and when problems arise which threaten the economic health of the planet, they are assumed to have the infrastructure to stave off those concerns. Being ill prepared, or showing disinterest in certain sectors, can be an issue when major incidents occur. One could say that the way this administration has handled The CDC and HHS, specifically with it's intent to severely cut those programs, might be one such contributing issue. The administration slashing the CDC's, global disease outbreak program by 80% (2018), seems like one of those issues.

Further, engaging in an ill-advised trade war with China would, if successful, require China pay a significantly larger amount to do business with the United States. Does one think that money comes the places, in China, best able to fight off a contagious disease outbreak?

How is (was) the CDC of the U.S. supposed to intercede in communist china?

Just go in there and tell them to stop manufacturing weaponized virus strains?



You think if Trump gave the CDC $20 Trillion it would have made a single difference on what happen in Wuhan?

Come on man, I can't stand obama but even I wouldn't say he is responsible in any way for **** like that if it happened on his watch.
I know you get your talking points from other fringe sites, as soon as it hits the blue check marks on twitter and it has anything to do with Trump you drop it here.
Take a minute to think for yourself.

I remember all of the outrage when ebola was all the rage and people here were blaming obama... no wait, that didn't happen.

****ing weird right?

 

[nonobaddog]

Right.

The Zika virus outbreak in 2015-6 was obummer's fault.
The Ebola virus outbreak in 2013-4 was obummer's fault.
The MERS virus outbreak in 2012 was obummer's fault.
The Avian flu outbreak in 2004 was Bush's fault.
The SARS virus outbreak in 2003 was Bush's fault.

If any of this makes sense to you, you need your skates sharpened.

 

[BugI02]

The First World drives the world economy, and when problems arise which threaten the economic health of the planet, they are assumed to have the infrastructure to stave off those concerns. Being ill prepared, or showing disinterest in certain sectors, can be an issue when major incidents occur. One could say that the way this administration has handled The CDC and HHS, specifically with it's intent to severely cut those programs, might be one such contributing issue. The administration slashing the CDC's, global disease outbreak program by 80% (2018), seems like one of those issues.

Further, engaging in an ill-advised trade war with China would, if successful, require China pay a significantly larger amount to do business with the United States. Does one think that money comes the places, in China, best able to fight off a contagious disease outbreak?

Do you see the problem with your own reasoning?

Paragraph 1, Trump cut the CDC budget (two years ago) so (according to you) spread of pandemic at least somewhat because of lower CDC spending

Paragraph 2, Trade war makes China choose to cut spending in areas needed to fight off contagious disease outbreak, and it is the trade wars fault?

In the first instance you want to blame Trump (because; you know) and at least he made the choices you cite

In the second instance, you still want to blame Trump; just for choices the the PRC made in that case. The common factor seems to be Orange Man Bad

 

[jamil]

Not so easy. China spent decades establishing close proximity supply chains and developing manufacturing competency and engineering skills.

No. It's not easy at all. Our economy is tightly woven with China's. It would be of benefit in many ways to get away from that, especially with the level of proprietary secret stealing they do. So anything would be a good start. It ain't gonna get started though if no one takes the steps.

 

[jamil]

The First World drives the world economy, and when problems arise which threaten the economic health of the planet, they are assumed to have the infrastructure to stave off those concerns. Being ill prepared, or showing disinterest in certain sectors, can be an issue when major incidents occur. One could say that the way this administration has handled The CDC and HHS, specifically with it's intent to severely cut those programs, might be one such contributing issue. The administration slashing the CDC's, global disease outbreak program by 80% (2018), seems like one of those issues.

Further, engaging in an ill-advised trade war with China would, if successful, require China pay a significantly larger amount to do business with the United States. Does one think that money comes the places, in China, best able to fight off a contagious disease outbreak?

That last point isn't a very good one, but whatever. If you can point to some things which caused some things, we can talk about the effect that has. Right now, the US is doing a lot better than most first world countries that have had cases. So until there's a there there, maybe we could focus on the more obvious things.