The 2020 General Election Thread

[BugI02]

Is it not understood that "absentee" and "(universal) mail-in" are not the same things? Is it not understood that saying "mail-in" voting refers to universal mail-in voting and not to absentee voting?

The entire point of the debate/discussion is that absentee voting is not the same thing as mail-in voting, and that the absentee ballot infrastructure/workflow is not a proxy for universal mail-in ballot workflow/infrastructure.

I would also like to see some attention to the magnitude of the problem. Universal mail-in voting will require processing many orders of magnitude greater amounts of ballots, and as such all numerical aspects will be equivalently magnified. Beyond the potential to simply overwhelm the system in place, that tiny percentage of fraud so oft referenced would also be magnified by those same orders of magnitude. Does 100x the amount of historic fraud become significant? What about 1000x?

Take the example of NY state. The 2018 general election, conducted under rules allowing only absentee ballots granted due to an accepted excuse, rejected 14% of those ballots submitted. The more recent example of NYC relaxing the rules governing absentee voting to require no approved excuse resulted in a 10x increase in requested ballots, the rejection percentage jumped to 21% of all mailed ballots and official results were delayed until after the election by up to one month

I see no evidence that any locale that doesn't already have mail in voting online will be in any way ready to implement such. Perhaps start just after November 3rd with the goal of being ready by 2030

 

[T.Lex]

It's also not a free and fair election. It's exploiting a system to "flip" the actual will of the voters there. But I agree, it isn't legally fraud. It's just ****ty politics.

If there's a list of things California is horrible at, elections would easily be top 5. But, that's the system enacted by their legislators.

And, technically, if Cali allowed those "new" voters to vote, and they voted blue because the Dems made it easy, then the will of the voters carried the day. The "actual" will of voters is reflected in how they vote.

 

[jamil]

If there's a list of things California is horrible at, elections would easily be top 5. But, that's the system enacted by their legislators.

And, technically, if Cali allowed those "new" voters to vote, and they voted blue because the Dems made it easy, then the will of the voters carried the day. The "actual" will of voters is reflected in how they vote.

It's the actual will of legal voters I'm concerned with.

 

[T.Lex]

It's the actual will of legal voters I'm concerned with.

When I think of all the things the actual legal voters have voted into existence in California through their legislators (perhaps over the protestations of a minority of conservatives), including all the things that allowed for more registered voters, I become less surprised with each new horrible thing they do.

 

[actaeon277]

[video=youtube_share;n_yxlukbwqk]https://youtu.be/n_yxlukbwqk[/video]

 

[actaeon277]

[video=youtube_share;LXZLhxEVJic]https://youtu.be/LXZLhxEVJic[/video]

 

[actaeon277]

[video=youtube_share;9trRkNWXK9I]https://youtu.be/9trRkNWXK9I[/video]

 

[actaeon277]

[video=youtube_share;JqdjbSxaPUc]https://youtu.be/JqdjbSxaPUc[/video]

 

[JettaKnight]

I think on a given election it probably all washes out. But this election there are Democrats saying **** like no matter what, don't concede. Ever. This isn't going to be a typical election. I don't think the quantity of Republicans who have a "by any means necessary" attitude about this election comes anywhere close to the Democrats right now. So maybe if we get past all this insane social justice nonsense, and this push to invalidate dissenters, and the constant imposing the Heckler's veto, we can get back to normal left-right dynamics, and then fraud will be a wash again. As it is, I think it's fair to suspect that Democrats would tend to pursue fraud more than Republicans this time around.

Along with that, I worry that conservatives are already planning on taking a stance that elections are going to be stolen because of fraud - because it certainly can't be fair if a democrat is elected.

No matter what the outcome, there will be some people that refuse to accept it.

Of course, it will be rigged because of [the Russians / George Soros].

 

[Tombs]

Wait.

Do you guys think that people can vote without registering to vote?

You're intentionally dragging the conversation away from the point I made.

What does registration have to do with people stealing your mail or destroying post office infrastructure?

 

[T.Lex]

You're intentionally dragging the conversation away from the point I made.

What does registration have to do with people stealing your mail or destroying post office infrastructure?

Stealing mail or destroying post office infrastructure doesn't rig elections.

But otherwise, if a registered voter's ballot is returned to the electoral body, then there are mechanisms to validate it. Are you saying there would be an organized effort to prevent mailed ballots of registered voters from reaching the electoral body?

 

[JettaKnight]

Stealing mail or destroying post office infrastructure doesn't rig elections.

But otherwise, if a registered voter's ballot is returned to the electoral body, then there are mechanisms to validate it. Are you saying there would be an organized effort to prevent mailed ballots of registered voters from reaching the electoral body?

In case you missed it:


Trump Drives Around Playing Mailbox Baseball In Latest Voter Suppression Scheme

 

[Tombs]

Stealing mail or destroying post office infrastructure doesn't rig elections.

But otherwise, if a registered voter's ballot is returned to the electoral body, then there are mechanisms to validate it. Are you saying there would be an organized effort to prevent mailed ballots of registered voters from reaching the electoral body?

Given the craziness of this year, and the extreme polarization of politics, yes I do believe this will be a not-insignificant factor.

 

[T.Lex]

Given the craziness of this year, and the extreme polarization of politics, yes I do believe this will be a not-insignificant factor.

I readily concede 2020 has been totally f'd up. And even that the extreme polarization of politics is unprecedented in my adulthood. (Technically, my lifetime includes the very end of the 60s, but I don't remember it - like most of the people who were around in the 60s.)

But this permutation of preventing Republican (ostensibly) ballots from making it to the electoral body is... far fetched. Are you thinking of a man-in-the-middle scheme in which actual ballots are sent to actual registered voters, but then intercepted? But then the actual voter doesn't actually vote?

I'm unclear (other than voter roll purging) what the real concern is.

 

[Tombs]

I readily concede 2020 has been totally f'd up. And even that the extreme polarization of politics is unprecedented in my adulthood. (Technically, my lifetime includes the very end of the 60s, but I don't remember it - like most of the people who were around in the 60s.)

But this permutation of preventing Republican (ostensibly) ballots from making it to the electoral body is... far fetched. Are you thinking of a man-in-the-middle scheme in which actual ballots are sent to actual registered voters, but then intercepted? But then the actual voter doesn't actually vote?

I'm unclear (other than voter roll purging) what the real concern is.

How are you still unclear? You spelled it out lol.

It's vulnerable to relatively easy intervention.

It's almost like we should just set up sites across the country with secure and private stalls and record votes with the push of a button, utilizing strong encryption and cryptography.

 

[jamil]

Along with that, I worry that conservatives are already planning on taking a stance that elections are going to be stolen because of fraud - because it certainly can't be fair if a democrat is elected.

No matter what the outcome, there will be some people that refuse to accept it.

Of course, it will be rigged because of [the Russians / George Soros].

Imma side with conservatives on this one. I think the democrats plan to cheat as much as they can get away with. When they act like it'll be the end of the world if they don't win, I kinda suspect they think they have nothing to lose by trying.

 

[jbombelli]

I bet a cheeseburger we'll see more votes than we have registered voters.

 

[Alamo]

So the outline of the Trump-is-hamstringing-the-USPS hoax is becoming a little clearer:
Request for Opinion Regarding the Scope of the Authority of a Criminal District Attorney in and for the State of Texas to Prosecute Federal Officials Who Knowingly Violate Texas Election Laws in an Attempt to Disenfranchise Texas Voters

Do I have to tell you which party the Bexar County DA is in? Watch for other state and county DAs to try this.

The Texas AG is not in the same party, and he is known to write some strong opinions. If he doesn't just park this request on the shelf, I will be interested to see how he says what he will have to say.

 

[actaeon277]

Why is the assumption about "stealing" the ballots from conservatives?

What about "stuffing" the ballots with: people on the rolls that moved, or dead, or don't vote?

 

[jamil]

Why is the assumption about "stealing" the ballots from conservatives?

What about "stuffing" the ballots with: people on the rolls that moved, or dead, or don't vote?

That’s how I assumed it would be primarily exploited.