The 2017 General Salma Hayek discussion thread...Part 3!!!

[Woobie]

I honestly don't know why you guys waste your time with him.

It's fun. And I get the impression from most of his posts that we would probably get along great in the real world. When he's wrong, he's really wrong. But he doesn't own that monopoly. It happens to everyone at some point.

 

[jbombelli]

It's fun. And I get the impression from most of his posts that we would probably get along great in the real world. When he's wrong, he's really wrong. But he doesn't own that monopoly. It happens to everyone at some point.

But some of us can sack up and admit when we're wrong instead of doubling down on it.

 

[Woobie]

But some of us can sack up and admit when we're wrong instead of doubling down on it.

Thats true. But we all have our faults. If you can't tell, I'm kind of a jerk when I argue. I'm working on it, obviously not well yet.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

There is an interesting column by Ruth Marcus in the WaPo today. The comment section brings out some additional "facts" in the Franken matter. If you have a subscription to WaPo, you can read it. If not, perhaps a friend will copy it to you.

I'm going to call an end to my side of this discussion. It's almost Thanksgiving and I have other matters to attend to.

Have a good holiday.

Good article that is mostly reasonable... but with one caveat. Just a few short months ago, pre-Weinstein tsunami, a similar article seeking to inoculate someone not a liberal "lion" would likely be judged something akin to "rape apologist" in Marcus' circle, but the grope equivalent. It could be that the two accusers, if truthful, represent just two rare mis-judgements on his part. Well, three, but Arianna Huffington was fine with it, so that one doesn't count as indicating habitual offenderhood. *wink*

Or, it could be he has a " type", let's say gorgeous brunettes based only upon two data points, and none of his 36 character references are that. Or, perhapshe'saware of his offense and smart enough not to defecate so close to home. Whichever, if more credible accusers come forward, he'll go down as too much weighton the party. Otherwise, he'll be the 55-year-old grope-y frat-boy poster-child (or one of several) for the party. Make that the meme for the "war on women". *grin*

Anyhow, wishing you and yours a Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[KLB]

The sex accusations need their own thread.

 

[jamil]

It occurred to me that this nonsensical belief in a general rape culture in the us may be because the prople who think so live in a micro rape culture. Certainly, if you live in Hollywood culture, and just about all the powerful people are white males who feel entitled through the power to a genuine rape culture, it would seem natural to wonder that this is just how men are.

It’s not just how men are. It’s how the men are who weren’t raised to be gentlemen. Maybe they should drive through the country instead of flying over it. Maybe they’ll catch us ogling Selma on the pages of INGO, but they won’t see a rape culture every place they turn. Gentlemen don’t touch women who don’t want to be touched, no matter how powerful they are.

Maybe the ‘rape culture’ progressives have complained about is real. Maybe it is the natural evolution of progressive men evolving beyond traditional values. I’m not saying people in flyover country don’t rape too. But it’s not baked into the culture like it seems to be in the progressive enclaves, Hollywood, Washington DC.

 

[Alpo]

Progressive men? Sorry...couldn't help myself. It is a type of person. Political parties don't really enter into it. There has to be some genetic basis along with environmental influences. You think all the pedophiles in Indiana are democrats? Think again.

Priests, Ministers, Strom Thurmond ( to put the political leanings to bed ), high schoold coaches, female English Lit teachers, the asst manager of the local grocery store. Dave Subway.....

You'd have to ask a cop or a social worker what they see daily. To most of us, it is inconceivable ("you keep using that word").

To say it is a white progressive problem excludes the obvious other subsets: people of color, conservatives and females. You narrow the focus to support your argument, but you lose the context. It's a much larger and broader problem than you seem to be able to see.

 

[Woobie]

It occurred to me that this nonsensical belief in a general rape culture in the us may be because the prople who think so live in a micro rape culture. Certainly, if you live in Hollywood culture, and just about all the powerful people are white males who feel entitled through the power to a genuine rape culture, it would seem natural to wonder that this is just how men are.

It’s not just how men are. It’s how the men are who weren’t raised to be gentlemen. Maybe they should drive through the country instead of flying over it. Maybe they’ll catch us ogling Selma on the pages of INGO, but they won’t see a rape culture every place they turn. Gentlemen don’t touch women who don’t want to be touched, no matter how powerful they are.

Maybe the ‘rape culture’ progressives have complained about is real. Maybe it is the natural evolution of progressive men evolving beyond traditional values. I’m not saying people in flyover country don’t rape too. But it’s not baked into the culture like it seems to be in the progressive enclaves, Hollywood, Washington DC.

You might really be onto something.


And here is a chicken/egg or correlation =/= causation discussion. Since most of these rape and sexual assault cases are coming out of D.C. and LA, it makes me wonder if all those voices coming out of those places crying out for gun control have something to do with it. Are they just trying to manufacture more defenseless victims, or are they taking advantage of the ones they have made. Or are these topics unrelated.


I will say this, at least on some level I think these things are corollary. I think there is something to the mentality of someone who wants others to be defenseless. Perhaps there is some sort of latent predatory tendency.

 

[Woobie]

Progressive men? Sorry...couldn't help myself. It is a type of person. Political parties don't really enter into it. There has to be some genetic basis along with environmental influences. You think all the pedophiles in Indiana are democrats? Think again.

Priests, Ministers, Strom Thurmond ( to put the political leanings to bed ), high schoold coaches, female English Lit teachers, the asst manager of the local grocery store. Dave Subway.....

You'd have to ask a cop or a social worker what they see daily. To most of us, it is inconceivable ("you keep using that word").

To say it is a white progressive problem excludes the obvious other subsets: people of color, conservatives and females. You narrow the focus to support your argument, but you lose the context. It's a much larger and broader problem than you seem to be able to see.

I think you might be reading his post backwards. It isn't that it is a progressive problem, per se. But they preach at us about "rape culture" because it actually exists where they are. They don't realize that most of us look be in a completely different society. Are there rapes in the Midwest? Most certainly. But the culture is still built around respect and rapists are ostracized. But an actor or columnist might be living in a world where predatory behavior toward young women is commonplace.

 

[Alpo]

OK. I have a hard time keeping up with trendy terms like "rape culture". So, there is room for misinterpretation. Sorry.

Yeah, we do live in a different society, but among us are the predators that attempt to stay invisible. It is pervasive. Perhaps all of these disclosures will put more of them on notice that their behavior is not going to go unnoticed in the future.

 

[Alpo]

*

 

[jamil]

Progressive men? Sorry...couldn't help myself. It is a type of person. Political parties don't really enter into it. There has to be some genetic basis along with environmental influences. You think all the pedophiles in Indiana are democrats? Think again.

Priests, Ministers, Strom Thurmond ( to put the political leanings to bed ), high schoold coaches, female English Lit teachers, the asst manager of the local grocery store. Dave Subway.....

You'd have to ask a cop or a social worker what they see daily. To most of us, it is inconceivable ("you keep using that word").

To say it is a white progressive problem excludes the obvious other subsets: people of color, conservatives and females. You narrow the focus to support your argument, but you lose the context. It's a much larger and broader problem than you seem to be able to see.

C'mon, man. Keep up. I just got done scolding you for acting like doze dang REpublicuns is more eviler than us demycrats. I just got done saying it's not partisan. So. It would seem logical for you to assume I can't mean that rape culture is a function of being a democrat. I'm not saying that. Rape isn't partisan. I am saying no such thing.

I think, like you do, that the capacity to rape is something in our genetic programming and enabled by environmental influences. We're constantly told by social justice warring progressives that there's a culture of rape in the US. I'm suggesting that maybe there really IS a rape culture--in Hollywood. And that the environment may be what drives that culture to do what it's doing. And that maybe that's why they say there's a culture of rape, because it is that way in the culture they know.

I'm also pointing out that there IS NOT a rape culture in flyover country. In flyover country we don't have the environment that would generally tolerate an actual rape culture surviving. Hollywood attracts people who want to make it in the biz. That makes the people who are in positions to make or break people's careers very powerful. So there are a lot more people willing to overlook what was happening because they want continued success themselves.

Maybe you take issue because I say "progressives". I draw a distinction between progressives and liberals. I'm talking about the insane social justice crowd. I said "progressives" because they're all the snarky ideologues. And they have different values from the more traditional values of flyover country.

 

[jamil]

OK. I have a hard time keeping up with trendy terms like "rape culture". So, there is room for misinterpretation. Sorry.

Yeah, we do live in a different society, but among us are the predators that attempt to stay invisible. It is pervasive. Perhaps all of these disclosures will put more of them on notice that their behavior is not going to go unnoticed in the future.

Seems to me like the people who crave power tend to do this kind of thing with the most regularity. Politicians and movie producers have a lot of power and tend to have people who crave power most occupy those positions. They also seem to be people who are sexually harassing/assaulting women way out of their league, as far as attractiveness. Whatshername was way out of Al's league.

 

[Alpo]

I think it exists on a local level as well. It doesn't take a lot of keyboard clicks to pull up the sex offender registry for Indianapolis and surrounding communities. Any time someone has power or authority over another, it can be abused. And if it can, it will be. Not all of us. Probably not most of us. But when you get a population big enough, it happens.

I look at the WTHR page daily and damn if I don't get angry and think we ought to just eliminate these people from the gene pool ... round em up on every Friday and cremate them on Saturday.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Seems to me like the people who crave power tend to do this kind of thing with the most regularity. Politicians and movie producers have a lot of power and tend to have people who crave power most occupy those positions. They also seem to be people who are sexually harassing/assaulting women way out of their league, as far as attractiveness. Whatshername was way out of Al's league.

I think it's because in politics, the movie/tv industry and mainstream media, there is a tremendous amount of "who you know" that is necessary to get the "big break". There's a lot "paying your dues" type crap, rather than a closer to "pure" meritocracy. So those in power or power brokers have tremendous leverage that they use to their own advantage. And, if you "squawk" about it, you risk being blacklisted as the power players talk to each other.

Many other professions, if you are good at your job and not getting recognition, raises and promotions... you simply put your resume out and get all of the above at another company. There is little to no pressure to put up with shenanigans. Sure, there are creepy guys in these other professions, but they just don't "own" you like they do in politics, entertainment, etc.

One key indicator, IMO, unpaid interns. It means people in that profession will work for free just to get their name noticed by the "powers that be".

 

[IndyDave1776]

It occurred to me that this nonsensical belief in a general rape culture in the us may be because the prople who think so live in a micro rape culture. Certainly, if you live in Hollywood culture, and just about all the powerful people are white males who feel entitled through the power to a genuine rape culture, it would seem natural to wonder that this is just how men are.

It’s not just how men are. It’s how the men are who weren’t raised to be gentlemen. Maybe they should drive through the country instead of flying over it. Maybe they’ll catch us ogling Selma on the pages of INGO, but they won’t see a rape culture every place they turn. Gentlemen don’t touch women who don’t want to be touched, no matter how powerful they are.

Maybe the ‘rape culture’ progressives have complained about is real. Maybe it is the natural evolution of progressive men evolving beyond traditional values. I’m not saying people in flyover country don’t rape too. But it’s not baked into the culture like it seems to be in the progressive enclaves, Hollywood, Washington DC.

Well said. It seems to work much in the same way that Chicago politicians apparently don't understand that there is anything wrong with corruption.

 

[Phase2]

Founder of the Fusion GPS opposition research firm that created the "Trump dossier" testified that Russian operatives have infiltrated the NRA. Apparently, everyone supporting 2A rights are now Russian stooges.

Fusion GPS Founder Claimed Russians Had Infil | The Daily Caller

 

[Leadeye]

Well said. It seems to work much in the same way that Chicago politicians apparently don't understand that there is anything wrong with corruption.

Until the day comes when the rule of law can stop leadership corruption and malfeasance it will be business as usual. Problem is that the same groups make the laws and pick who your representatives will be. Social issues aside, the choice today is the lesser of two evils.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/al-franken-two-more-women-groping_us_5a15a455e4b09650540ec295

According to HuffPo, there are now a total of 4 women accusing Al Franken of groping them, and one of the four said he propositioned her as well, suggesting they go do it in the restroom. Both of the two new accusers say it happened at campaign events.

 

[hoosierdoc]

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/al-franken-two-more-women-groping_us_5a15a455e4b09650540ec295

According to HuffPo, there are now a total of 4 women accusing Al Franken of groping them, and one of the four said he propositioned her as well.

What do we want here? Him out and a New Democrat nominated by governor?

he's illegitimate anyway. Won due to voter fraud and gave us Obamacare