The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[Brad69]

Hmm agreeing with Howard Dean on part of it this not on the point on the media made up the alt- left.
Moderate Democrats are becoming a rare breed most have joined the populace movement or have just sit out the fight.

 

[Alpo]

The press is hard on Trump, I don't deny that. The press is going to be hard on any Republican. There's a light year's difference in the way the press treats Trump compared to other Republican presidents.... and that's because of the way Trump carries himself.

However, one must not forget that Trump got millions in free advertising from the same press during the primaries. The press got him elected. Reporting every possible or even impossible act on the part of Trump for a year put his name in the minds of many. This was advertising better than Madison Ave could have created.

The media elected him. Now they don't like the child they gave birth to. Get an ethical vasectomy before the next election, then.

 

[jamil]

No, I just think any rationalization or justification for someone lying is a bunch of horses***.

I'm not sure why you would think I was rationalizing or justifying any lying. Did you even read the post?

 

[jamil]

Yeah, but some at least have the enough respect to make up lies about potentially believable stuff, rather than tell outright how stupid they think we are, by telling us a lie that goes beyond the pale. Its like he's honestly out of touch with reality. It really makes me think back to him calling Cruz "Lyin' Ted," and I'm like "is this guy serious?"

That's a legitimate complaint. And that only speaks to character and perhaps a bit to sanity. Trump obviously has some issues if he has to constantly hear how wonderful he is.

As the subject, though, if I'm going to be lied to no matter what, I'd rather a person tell obvious lies which are easily verified as untruthful. I can laugh at Trump lying about crowd size to make him feel better about himself. That kind of lie has no power at all. I hear that and just call him a fool. But media has a sort of perceived ethos where people just believe what they say. And when they abuse that by just making up stories--the Russia/**** story comes to mind--that's some powerful lies.

And that's not to say Trump doesn't have power in his lies. Saying things that are obviously untrue really has no power. Not even over people who believe some of the crazy things he says because of bias. But if he lies about things that actually matter, then those lies have power too.

 

[jamil]

The press is hard on Trump, I don't deny that. The press is going to be hard on any Republican. There's a light year's difference in the way the press treats Trump compared to other Republican presidents.... and that's because of the way Trump carries himself.

I think it goes much deeper than that. Don't get me wrong, I think Trump is pretty overboard on a lot of stuff, but the press makes everything he does sound way more overboard than it is. I kinda think they'd do that to about any Republican, but with Trump it's just too easy. I mean he pushes the dial at least to 7 or 8 on the overboard scale. So it doesn't take much more to make people think everything Trump does is an eleven. Be honest. You believed the **** story. Didn't you. It was just too savory for you not to.

 

[Dddrees]

I'm not sure why you would think I was rationalizing or justifying any lying. Did you even read the post?

Yeah, and I found most of it to be a bunch of baloney.

 

[Dddrees]

That's a legitimate complaint. And that only speaks to character and perhaps a bit to sanity. Trump obviously has some issues if he has to constantly hear how wonderful he is.

As the subject, though, if I'm going to be lied to no matter what, I'd rather a person tell obvious lies which are easily verified as untruthful. I can laugh at Trump lying about crowd size to make him feel better about himself. That kind of lie has no power at all. I hear that and just call him a fool. But media has a sort of perceived ethos where people just believe what they say. And when they abuse that by just making up stories--the Russia/**** story comes to mind--that's some powerful lies.

And that's not to say Trump doesn't have power in his lies. Saying things that are obviously untrue really has no power. Not even over people who believe some of the crazy things he says because of bias. But if he lies about things that actually matter, then those lies have power too.

So what exactly is keeping an idiot like this who lies about the most obvious from telling other lies which are harder to discern or prove?

 

[Kutnupe14]

I think it goes much deeper than that. Don't get me wrong, I think Trump is pretty overboard on a lot of stuff, but the press makes everything he does sound way more overboard than it is. I kinda think they'd do that to about any Republican, but with Trump it's just too easy. I mean he pushes the dial at least to 7 or 8 on the overboard scale. So it doesn't take much more to make people think everything Trump does is an eleven. Be honest. You believed the **** story. Didn't you. It was just too savory for you not to.

Actually, no. Trump isn't the type of guy to get back at someone and it be his little inside joke. If he wants revenge, he wants it made public when done.

 

[Dddrees]

Actually, no. Trump isn't the type of guy to get back at someone and it be his little inside joke. If he wants revenge, he wants it made public when done.

Exactly, at least thats been his MO so far.

 

[jamil]

Yeah, and I found most of it to be a bunch of baloney.

Oh. I don't doubt that at all. I've not seen any post from you in evidence demonstrating you're willingness to admit any truth which might not perceive Trump in the worst possible way. If you can point me to such a post, I'd be happy to change my mind about that.

So what exactly is keeping an idiot like this who lies about the most obvious from telling other lies which are harder to discern or prove?

Well, to some extent the press does that. At least, that's what they're supposed to do. They're supposed to investigate claims made by those in power and expose the truth. They'd be a lot more effective at it if they'd stop hurting their own credibility. If they'd stop lying to make their political opposites look worse than they actually are, and if they'd stop lying to cover up the bad things their political allies do.

So what kept Obama from lying? Certainly not the press. For Obama's lies the people had to wait for reality to reveal itself beyond the Press's ability to obfuscate it. At least with Trump I'm confident that most dishonest things Trump does will be revealed. It's just unfortunate that many things will be over-reported just because #resist. If the press would have honestly reported about Obamacare it'd have never passed. If they'd have honestly reported the parliamentary tricks Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi pulled to ram it through congress, Dems would have turned over the Senate to Republicans in 2010.

 

[Dddrees]

Oh. I don't doubt that at all. I've not seen any post from you in evidence demonstrating you're willingness to admit any truth which might not perceive Trump in the worst possible way. If you can point me to such a post, I'd be happy to change my mind about that.



Well, to some extent the press does that. At least, that's what they're supposed to do. They're supposed to investigate claims made by those in power and expose the truth. They'd be a lot more effective at it if they'd stop hurting their own credibility. If they'd stop lying to make their political opposites look worse than they actually are, and if they'd stop lying to cover up the bad things their political allies do.

So what kept Obama from lying? Certainly not the press. For Obama's lies the people had to wait for reality to reveal itself beyond the Press's ability to obfuscate it. At least with Trump I'm confident that most dishonest things Trump does will be revealed. It's just unfortunate that many things will be over-reported just because #resist. If the press would have honestly reported about Obamacare it'd have never passed. If they'd have honestly reported the parliamentary tricks Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi pulled to ram it through congress, Dems would have turned over the Senate to Republicans in 2010.

This post makes you sound just as bad as the ones you rail against.

 

[jamil]

Actually, no. Trump isn't the type of guy to get back at someone and it be his little inside joke. If he wants revenge, he wants it made public when done.

Are we talking about the same story? I'm talking about the story that came out about the "dossier", which, turned out to be a fabrication. Among other things, it alleged that Trump had a "golden shower" rendezvous with hookers during a trip to Russia.

I seem to remember that you kinda acted like you actually believed it, or at least you wanted to believe it. I'm willing to concede that it was someone else though. Was Dddrees around then?

 

[jamil]

This post makes you sound just as bad as the ones you rail against.

I'm willing to hear you out. Make your case.

 

[2A_Tom]

WOW, just WOW!!!! agreeing with Kut and Alpo in one post,

Oh c'mon BF. Do you deny that people who buy into the "3,000,000 illegal votes," think that the people who did so knowing full well that they were committing a crime? If you think that those people were making a mistake, then the problem isn't with the people illegally voting, but with the system that doesn't make clear one's voting status. And since you went there, while ignorance of the law isn't ever a valid excuse, I certainly gave breaks to people if their understanding of a transgression was in question. Believe it or not, cops aren't mindless automatons.

As for Trump, yeah, every lie he tells is his fault.

It IS a broken system that Dems will defend to the death. Motor voter + Sanctuary cities + DLs for resident illegals = Illegals registered to vote who may or may not that it is ILLEGAL to vote and what does it matter because they're ILLEGAL.

However, one must not forget that Trump got millions in free advertising from the same press during the primaries. The press got him elected. Reporting every possible or even impossible act on the part of Trump for a year put his name in the minds of many. This was advertising better than Madison Ave could have created.

The media elected him. Now they don't like the child they gave birth to. Get an ethical vasectomy before the next election, then.

I have said this myself.

Actually, no. Trump isn't the type of guy to get back at someone and it be his little inside joke. If he wants revenge, he wants it made public when done.

That is his style. You attack him in public he does the same to you.

 

[jamil]

WOW, just WOW!!!! agreeing with Kut and Alpo in one post,



It IS a broken system that Dems will defend to the death. Motor voter + Sanctuary cities + DLs for resident illegals = Illegals registered to vote who may or may not that it is ILLEGAL to vote and what does it matter because they're ILLEGAL.

I don't think motor-voter was necessarily a bad thing. I think we should make it easy to vote while ensuring only eligible people vote. Driving has nothing to do with voting, but the DMV seems like a reasonable place where both ease and proper identification can happen. So, I think the bad part of the equasion above is the sanctuary cities and given DLs to people who aren't here legally.

That is his style. You attack him in public he does the same to you.

I just don't see that as a positive attribute for the POTUS. I want a POTUS that isn't milquetoast, but he could defend himself without being the same as the people attacking him.

 

[Dddrees]

I'm willing to hear you out. Make your case.

Your right, I thought about it and I was wrong.


i still take point with how it seems you wish to minimize what Trump does, but in this case I was wrong.

i appolozize.

 

[KJQ6945]

Your right, I thought about it and I was wrong.


i still take point with how it seems you wish to minimize what Trump does, but in this case I was wrong.

i appolozize.

 

[ghitch75]

Maryland city mulling over idea to let undocumented residents vote | Fox News

 

[jamil]

Your right, I thought about it and I was wrong.


i still take point with how it seems you wish to minimize what Trump does, but in this case I was wrong.

i appolozize.

Thank you. I think an apology is unnecessary though. But I do appreciate the sentiment.

Rather than minimizing what Trump does, I think I'm "right sizing" what what he does. At least that's the goal. I'm not interested in praising him or bashing him. I'm not on the pro-trump side and I'm not on the anti-trump side. I'm on my side. I just want to figure out what is true and what is not and react accordingly. The only #resist I want anything to do with is the one that is against too much government power. I want no part of a fan club. I can't be against everything Trump does just to be against Trump. That's just not honest. For the same reason I can't blindly support everything he does either. It's case by case.

 

[Birds Away]

Thank you. I think an apology is unnecessary though. But I do appreciate the sentiment.

Rather than minimizing what Trump does, I think I'm "right sizing" what what he does. At least that's the goal. I'm not interested in praising him or bashing him. I'm not on the pro-trump side and I'm not on the anti-trump side. I'm on my side. I just want to figure out what is true and what is not and react accordingly. The only #resist I want anything to do with is the one that is against too much government power. I want no part of a fan club. I can't be against everything Trump does just to be against Trump. That's just not honest. For the same reason I can't blindly support everything he does either. It's case by case.

Huzzah! A little honesty is nice to see around here.