The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[jamil]

I'm inclined to follow your lead on that, having no medical background myself.

I was under the impression the medical community was moving away from the "mental illness" model for trans people...is that incorrect?

I get the sense that the migration of thought from the medical community away from "mental illness" has more to do with social activism than anything else. I mean you have people who call themselves "scientists" saying that there is no biological sex, that is that sexual identity varies independently from biology. Yet something like 99.7% of the population regardless of culture and location identifies with the "equipment" they have.

In those rarer cases, it's been traditionally viewed as a mental disorder where the person feels uncomfortable with the sex organs they have, along with a strong belief that they would or do feel more comfortable with having the sex organs of the opposite sex. So society has gotten some things wrong about transgendered people. They've been ridiculed and forced into the closet, when it's something that they can't really help. These people shouldn't be ridiculed any more than a disabled person should be ridiculed. But we also shouldn't treat it as if it's up to their whims that they arbitrarily choose their sex.

 

[Dddrees]

Yeah, I would prefer a more reputable source.

Sorry but I'm not up to speed on which is which when it comes to left vs right Media with exception of Fox, CNN, Breitbart and the more common ones.

So here goes another source reporting on what Marine General Joe Dunford says with regards to waiting for more from Trump first. Policy remains the same until more from Trump.

Joint Chiefs to troops: 'No modifications' to transgender policy - POLITICO

 

[Birds Away]

Sorry but I'm not up to speed on which is which when it comes to left vs right Media with exception of Fox, CNN, Breitbart and the more common ones.

So here goes another source reporting on what Marine General Joe Dunford says with regards to waiting for more from Trump first. Policy remains the same until more from Trump.

Joint Chiefs to troops: 'No modifications' to transgender policy - POLITICO

I don't dispute what's being reported. I just try to avoid those entities known to fabricate stories to support their specific political agenda.

 

[Dddrees]

I get the sense that the migration of thought from the medical community away from "mental illness" has more to do with social activism than anything else. I mean you have people who call themselves "scientists" saying that there is no biological sex, that is that sexual identity varies independently from biology. Yet something like 99.7% of the population regardless of culture and location identifies with the "equipment" they have.

In those rarer cases, it's been traditionally viewed as a mental disorder where the person feels uncomfortable with the sex organs they have, along with a strong belief that they would or do feel more comfortable with having the sex organs of the opposite sex. So society has gotten some things wrong about transgendered people. They've been ridiculed and forced into the closet, when it's something that they can't really help. These people shouldn't be ridiculed any more than a disabled person should be ridiculed. But we also shouldn't treat it as if it's up to their whims that they arbitrarily choose their sex.

So do you think they can be fixed? I mean the whole belief that gays could be programmed kind of has been proved false hasn't it?

 

[Dddrees]

I don't dispute what's being reported. I just try to avoid those entities known to fabricate stories to support their specific political agenda.

So you now agree that this whole Tweet by Policy Ban on the Transgenders in the Military was executed poorly and it appears the Military wasn't in the loop?

 

[indiucky]

I get the sense that the migration of thought from the medical community away from "mental illness" has more to do with social activism than anything else. I mean you have people who call themselves "scientists" saying that there is no biological sex, that is that sexual identity varies independently from biology. Yet something like 99.7% of the population regardless of culture and location identifies with the "equipment" they have.

In those rarer cases, it's been traditionally viewed as a mental disorder where the person feels uncomfortable with the sex organs they have, along with a strong belief that they would or do feel more comfortable with having the sex organs of the opposite sex. So society has gotten some things wrong about transgendered people. They've been ridiculed and forced into the closet, when it's something that they can't really help. These people shouldn't be ridiculed any more than a disabled person should be ridiculed. But we also shouldn't treat it as if it's up to their whims that they arbitrarily choose their sex.

Give this a listen/watch Jamil...You sound a little like Camille Paglia on this....Camille identified as a young man when a girl and she cringes at the thought that she may have mutilated herself if she was born today and if so it would have ruined her life...She is a lesbian Atheist so her views kind of turn those who would normally be with her against her...Truth hurts and she takes her lumps...I love her...She defended Palin back in the day against the onslaught against her and made more enemies then as well....

[video=youtube;I8BRdwgPChQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8BRdwgPChQ[/video]

 

[Birds Away]

So you now agree that this whole Tweet by Policy Ban on the Transgenders in the Military was executed poorly and it appears the Military wasn't in the loop?

In this day and age we have to be very careful. Making snap judgments on tidbits of information has never been more perilous than it is today. There are as many people out there trying to deceive us as to inform us. Who could have imagined that a day would come where the New York Times and the Washington Post were two of the most unreliable news sources in the country? One has to be very careful. If, as seems to be the case, Trump tweeted this out without first informing anyone in the chain of command then, yes, I think that is regrettable and is not conducive to having an efficiently run administration.

 

[Dddrees]

In this day and age we have to be very careful. Making snap judgments on tidbits of information has never been more perilous than it is today. Their are as many people out there trying to deceive us and to inform us. Who could have imagined that a day would come where the New York Times and the Washington Post were two of the most unreliable news sources in the country? One has to be very careful. If, as seems to be the case, Trump tweeted this out without first informing anyone in the chain of command then, yes, I think that is regrettable and is not conducive to having an efficiently run administration.

Ok, sounds perfectly reasonable to me and I drew conclusions before having all of the data to back up my statements previously. Sorry, but everything I saw to that point suggested to me what I said.

Hard to say what story will be put forth next by the Administration, but they'll have a hard time convincing me this is anything but Trump trying to govern by the seat of his pants. No matter his motives which I'll always question the effect of how he goes about it is that it's not the best way, it's not even a reasonable way of running the country.

 

[churchmouse]

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Sorry but I'm not up to speed on which is which when it comes to left vs right Media with exception of Fox, CNN, Breitbart and the more common ones.

So here goes another source reporting on what Marine General Joe Dunford says with regards to waiting for more from Trump first. Policy remains the same until more from Trump.

Joint Chiefs to troops: 'No modifications' to transgender policy - POLITICO

While I would agree that a tweet is not "the best way" to do this, it is "a way" of putting a "trial balloon" and notice out that change is coming.

By way of comparison, the Obama administration policy was first announced by DefSec Hagel in May of 2014 with his statement that the transgender prohibition in place at the time was going to be reviewed and that "Every qualified American who wants to serve our country should have an opportunity if they fit the qualifications and can do it." In Washington-speak, that was the equivalent of "we are letting them in."

In July of 2015, Hagel's successor, DefSec CArter, was crystal clear in announcing "the Pentagon would move to allow transgender people to serve openly."

In May of 2016, the commission investigating it published their findings.

It wasn't until June 30, 2016 that the actual directive from the SecDef was handed down "to be implemented immediately."

The point being that anytime in those 2 years, someone in the chain of command could have said they don't know the details nor exactly when the details and policy would take effect.

Same. Same. Reported differently.

Oops, forgot the link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/us/politics/trans-military-trump-timeline.html

 

[Birds Away]

Nothing to see here, boss.

 

[Dddrees]

While I would agree that a tweet is not "the best way" to do this, it is "a way" of putting a "trial balloon" and notice out that change is coming.

By way of comparison, the Obama administration policy was first announced by DefSec Hagel in May of 2014 with his statement that the transgender prohibition in place at the time was going to be reviewed and that "Every qualified American who wants to serve our country should have an opportunity if they fit the qualifications and can do it." In Washington-speak, that was the equivalent of "we are letting them in."

In July of 2015, Hagel's successor, DefSec CArter, was crystal clear in announcing "the Pentagon would move to allow transgender people to serve openly."

In May of 2016, the commission investigating it published their findings.

It wasn't until June 30, 2016 that the actual directive from the SecDef was handed down "to be implemented immediately."

The point being that anytime in those 2 years, someone in the chain of command could have said they don't know the details nor exactly when the details and policy would take effect.

Same. Same. Reported differently.

Oops, forgot the link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/us/politics/trans-military-trump-timeline.html

Sorry but how could anyone take Trumps' Tweet on Banning Transgenders as a Trial Balloon? Wow, there's just too much there and I have so little time to respond at length. let's start with these thoughts however.

Cruel

Incompetent

Resource Intensive for just a trial balloon

Stupid


Incompetent

Did I say incompetent?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Sorry but how could anyone take Trumps' Tweet on Banning Transgenders as a Trial Balloon? Wow, there's just too much there and I have so little time to respond at length. let's start with these thoughts however.

Cruel

Incompetent

Resource Intensive for just a trial balloon

Stupid


Incompetent

Did I say incompetent?

Then go with the "notice" the policy is going to change part... which incidently, for anyone paying close attention, was given not with this tweet but with SecDef Mattis halt in allowing transgender recruiting to start a month ago on June 30th. Apparently, even though announcing the change and saying it was implemented, Obama left office without the details of the policy change in place. Allowing openly trans recruits was scheduled to start July 1st of THIS YEAR.

Mattis delays new transgender policy for US military

 

[Dddrees]

Then go with the "notice" the policy is going to change part... which incidently, for anyone paying close attention, was given not with this tweet but with SecDef Mattis halt in allowing transgender recruiting to start a month ago on June 30th. Apparently, even though announcing the change and saying it was implemented, Obama left office without the details of the policy change in place. Allowing openly trans recruits was scheduled to start July 1st of THIS YEAR.

Mattis delays new transgender policy for US military

How about the Tweet about a subject such as this or at the least this one was a poor way to communicate this subject?

 

[jamil]

So do you think they can be fixed? I mean the whole belief that gays could be programmed kind of has been proved false hasn't it?

It's less clear about gays. I don't think that's classified as a psychological disorder. But that's a different subject altogether. I think it's clear that transgender is not related to being gay.

Can transgenders be fixed? Well, the social justice activists think so. THE DSM V has done away with the old diagnosis of Gender Identity Disorder that was in the DSM-4, and now calls it "Gender Dysphoria". As if that really means anything different. Also the recommended treatment is now physical alteration. And the people making these changes now are the kinds of "scientists" who say there is no biological concept of sex.

But is that really a fix? I think probably not. Seems that at a minimum it would be good to help them cope with reality.

 

[Jludo]

What is this good bipartisan government? Get this out of here.

Dem & GOP senators unite to reform justice system - CNN Video

 

[bwframe]

FNC is LIVE reporting they are looking at 49 R "yeah" votes on the "Skinny Repeal." Vote to happen just after midnight.

Pence is presiding over the Senate to vote if one more vote can be gotten. No word on the holdouts.

 

[Dddrees]

In yet another sign as how disfunctional this administration has become Scarramucci takes on Priebus and Bannon.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-at-priebus-make-fun-bannon-in-interview.html

 

[Dddrees]

Russia sanctions bill approved overwhelmingly and now headed to Trump.

Appears whether they be Democrat or Republican that Congress is sending a signal to Trump that they don't trust his judgement when it comes to Russia.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/us/politics/senate-russia-sanctions-trump.html

 

[ghitch75]

not a wise move......

Europe to U.S.: Your new Russia sanctions would hurt us too - Jul. 24, 2017