The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[actaeon277]

Witch hunts were allowed before the DADT policy.

 

[Dddrees]

Homosexual conduct is a violation of the UCMJ. It always has been. The Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy allowed commands to ignore it unless it openly presented itself as a problem. In my experience the witch hunts all happened before this policy was enacted. Before this policy was enacted it was a command's duty to investigate and prosecute such conduct. The policy allowed commands to turn a blind eye to it. It is true, though, that most commands were turning a blind eye to it even before the policy was enacted.

When you say is I think that's now a was. I'm pretty sure the policy was changed and it's no longer a violation of the UCMJ. Whether incidents of persecution were greater before or after I don't have the actual statistics but from memory and based on what I heard I would disagree.

However even without those statistics I think it's pretty easy to make the case it was bad policy that went counter to what the Military was all about and in fact that's what the Army Chief of Staff said in his testimony to Congress.

 

[Birds Away]

When you say is I think that's now a was. I'm pretty sure the policy was changed and it's no longer a violation of the UCMJ. Whether incidents of persecution were greater before or after I don't have the actual statistics but from memory and based on what I heard I would disagree.

However even without those statistics I think it's pretty easy to make the case it was bad policy that went counter to what the Military was all about and in fact that's what the Army Chief of Staff said in his testimony to Congress.

So you support kicking all homosexuals out of the military? I'm surprised to hear that from a leftist.

 

[Dddrees]

So you support kicking all homosexuals out of the military? I'm surprised to hear that from a leftist.

No, and you caompletely missed my point about expectations of integrity of those who serve. This has absolutely nothing to do with political leaning as well.

 

[Dddrees]

Witch hunts were allowed before the DADT policy.

Is this meant to be some kind of big important revelation?

 

[Birds Away]

No, and you caompletely missed my point about expectations of integrity of those who serve. This has absolutely nothing to do with political leaning as well.

Okay, if you think DADT was a bad policy that leaves us with punishing and expelling gays. Those were the two options when that policy was enacted. I understand what the General was saying about integrity. This policy was a political solution foisted upon the military by the then POTUS William Jefferson Clinton.

 

[Dddrees]

Okay, if you think DADT was a bad policy that leaves us with punishing and expelling gays. Those were the two options when that policy was enacted. I understand what the General was saying about integrity. This policy was a political solution foisted upon the military by the then POTUS William Jefferson Clinton.

i know who it came from and I am also aware of the times we are talking about. I didn't likeClinton by the way either. But it wouldn't have mattered who enacted it, the policy was ill conceived.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Well if some think Obamacare is only about those individuals which don't get their insurance through their employer, Military, Congress, or Medicare then I think they're badly mistaken. If I'm not mistaken one of those items in Repeal has to do with the employer mandate. Sounds to me that that might possibly have an affect on the insurance one might get through their employer. I think it's been there since the beginning yet this hardly if ever comes up during a discussion over Obamacare.

Mandates do weird things... for example, the summer before Obamacare, my son was able to work as many hours as he wanted (typically 40+) to at his college job as he was considered temp for the summer. The summer after, he was restricted to 28 hr/week, otherwise ObamaCare would deem him "fulltime" and require health insurance on his behalf.

The folks in Washington who think they know best for everyone need to get off the public teat and get a real job every once in a while.

 

[actaeon277]

Is this meant to be some kind of big important revelation?

Edited.
Could be construed as insulting.

 

[Birds Away]

i know who it came from and I am also aware of the times we are talking about. I didn't likeClinton by the way either. But it wouldn't have mattered who enacted it, the policy was ill conceived.

That wasn't intended to be a jab at you or Clinton for that matter. I'm certainly not a Clinton fan but he was in a spot. He was under a lot of pressure from the gay rights crowd to "do something". He knew he would be raked over the coals by the right if he went too far. So he enacted this policy and was excoriated by both sides. The gay rights folks said it didn't go far enough and the right said it would totally destroy the military. Just another example of half-vast measures not really doing anything for anyone.

 

[Dddrees]

No. I'm sorry you are unable to complete the thought. I guess I gave you too much credit.

No, when you statement is incomplete your meaning is vague at best. If you complete your thought there's less room for us to assume something other than what you actually mean. Witch hunts have happened and probably will always take place, that statement you made means very little to me.

 

[Dddrees]

That wasn't intended to be a jab at you or Clinton for that matter. I'm certainly not a Clinton fan but he was in a spot. He was under a lot of pressure from the gay rights crowd to "do something". He knew he would be raked over the coals by the right if he went too far. So he enacted this policy and was excoriated by both sides. The gay rights folks said it didn't go far enough and the right said it would totally destroy the military. Just another example of half-vast measures not really doing anything for anyone.

Agree, and in fact that's what I meant when I said I remember the times. Sorry, but for some reason it seems everybody thinks because I hate Trump I Luvs Clinton or that I'm a Democrat. Both in fact are completely untrue.

 

[actaeon277]

It was bad policy because that's the effect it had. Because of the policy the witch hunts basically were sanctioned.

It was bad policy because the US was basically saying you can be gay just make sure you lie about it and tell us your not. You can be gay just don't get caught doing it.

"Witch hunts" were "sanctioned" before DADT.
DADT did not "sanction" them.

 

[Dddrees]

Now for this thought that it makes any sense to roll out a policy like banning Transgenders from the Military via Twitter. What idiot would ever think that makes good sense? No let me guess, Trump.

 

[ghitch75]

Russia probe: Democrats block key witness against shadowy firm Fusion GPS | Fox News

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Russia probe: Democrats block key witness against shadowy firm Fusion GPS | Fox News

Holy CRAP! The same Russian lawyer that pown'ed Don Jr, et al, into meeting with her is the one who hired Fusion GPS to smear Trump via the pee-pee memos!

Conspiracy theory starts to gain some traction that the Don Jr meeting was indeed a setup.

Why don't Democrats want to know how RUSSIANS tried to influence the election!!!

ETA: Perhaps Browder needs a protective detail... people with such information often commit suicide.

 

[ghitch75]

Trump?s not alone: Congress digging into DNC-Ukraine connection | Fox News

 

[Jludo]

Rationality is probably the best way to react to Transgenders in the military. It is a mental condition in which affected people are uncomfortable with their genitalia. So it's a question of whether their disorder inhibits their and other soldiers' ability to do their jobs.

The thing that determines their fitness for service should not be their or our feelings, but should be their usefulness and ability to carry out their duties. If Trump's decision is based on a recommendation by military leadership who have done the necessary evaluations, there's no reason to complain. I suspect this decision is just as politically motivated as Obama's was to let them serve.

Shouldn't their 'usefulness and ability to carry out their duties' be determined on a case by case basis? If just one person can pull it off isn't a blanket ban unwarranted?

 

[Dddrees]

Holy CRAP! The same Russian lawyer that pown'ed Don Jr, et al, into meeting with her is the one who hired Fusion GPS to smear Trump via the pee-pee memos!

Conspiracy theory starts to gain some traction that the Don Jr meeting was indeed a setup.

Why don't Democrats want to know how RUSSIANS tried to influence the election!!!

ETA: Perhaps Browder needs a protective detail... people with such information often commit suicide.

So if in fact it was a setup are you saying Don Jr isn't responsible for taking the meeting?

 

[Dddrees]

Now for this thought that it makes any sense to roll out a policy like banning Transgenders from the Military via Twitter. What idiot would ever think that makes good sense? No let me guess, Trump.

As suspected it looks as though Trump caught people off guard with this policy roll out via Twitter. The very people who will have to implement it and decide exactly how it will be implemented. Not to mention all those who will be affected by this policy. You may chose to take either side on this issue, however the way he goes about announcing a policy such as this is just simply screwed up. Chaos for chaos sake because he happened to get out of bed on one side vs the other this morning. Or maybe because he chooses to battle with Sessions but save his hide with his supporters on this issue.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/us/politics/trump-transgender-military.html