The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[hoosierdoc]

No. Yes. Yes.

republicans are terrible leaders. They prove that time and time again. Needed Newt as chief of staff

 

[jamil]

I'd like to see the repeal pass. Then I'd like to see a bill pass that fully restores the market in the healthcare industry and destroys any sign of the crony healthcare industrial complex we have today.

 

[Dddrees]

Rationality is probably the best way to react to Transgenders in the military. It is a mental condition in which affected people are uncomfortable with their genitalia. So it's a question of whether their disorder inhibits their and other soldiers' ability to do their jobs.

The thing that determines their fitness for service should not be their or our feelings, but should be their usefulness and ability to carry out their duties. If Trump's decision is based on a recommendation by military leadership who have done the necessary evaluations, there's no reason to complain. I suspect this decision is just as politically motivated as Obama's was to let them serve.

If you think there aren't Trangenders in the Military already your badly mistaken. Early indications are that the Military really wasn't ready to take a stance. Sounds as though this latest stance was more about taking a stance and not about good policy. Do you have any idea what Ask But Don't Tell was all about and what that policy actually did and how it was carried out?

 

[bwframe]

I'd like to see the repeal pass. Then I'd like to see a bill pass that fully restores the market in the healthcare industry and destroys any sign of the crony healthcare industrial complex we have today.

Repeal is the only way to go. We need to publicly shame those RHINO women who are holdouts on this.

 

[Dddrees]

Repeal is the only way to go. We need to publicly shame those RHINO women who are holdouts on this.

Yes, yes we have no plan but let's show them. LOL

 

[Dddrees]

No. Yes. Yes.

republicans are terrible leaders. They prove that time and time again. Needed Newt as chief of staff

You think Newt will finally get his wish to colonize Mars?

 

[Birds Away]

If you think there aren't Trangenders in the Military already your badly mistaken. Early indications are that the Military really wasn't ready to take a stance. Sounds as though this latest stance was more about taking a stance and not about good policy. Do you have any idea what Ask But Don't Tell was all about and what that policy actually did and how it was carried out?

I served for a long time. I knew of a couple of closet "cross dressers" but no actual transgenders. I am familiar with the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy.

 

[Dddrees]

I served for a long time. I knew of a couple of closet "cross dressers" but no actual transgenders. I am familiar with the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy.

The Military is nothing more than a reflection of society so I would have to believe there are some. But just as with Gays before Don't Ask Don't tell I thought there were some Gays but I was never aware of any issues.


What was your take away of the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy?

 

[Birds Away]

The Military is nothing more than a reflection of society so I would have to believe there are some. But just as with Gays before Don't Ask Don't tell I thought there were some Gays but I was never aware of any issues.


What was your take away of the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy?

To me it was just a continuation of what was already, unofficially, the standard practice. What someone did on their own time was their own business as long as it didn't effect the unit or get them involved with law enforcement. I knew many gay and lesbian folks who served very honorably and nothing was said. I also knew of a few cases where folks just had to make a show of it and it didn't work out very well for them.

 

[Dddrees]

To me it was just a continuation of what was already, unofficially, the standard practice. What someone did on their own time was their own business as long as it didn't effect the unit or get them involved with law enforcement. I knew many gay and lesbian folks who served very honorably and nothing was said. I also knew of a few cases where folks just had to make a show of it and it didn't work out very well for them.

Ah, but I think the facts showed it wasn't a simple continuation. My take away was that it gave some commanders the authority and ability to persecute individuals for their sexual beliefs. If nothing else Don't Ask Don't Tell was a cowards response to what was really taking place.

Regardless the Military did take action and take a much different course later on. I forget if it was the Military Chief of Staff or the Army Chief of Staffs statement in front of Congress that changed this or not. Where he basically talked about the fact that the policy itself went against everything we expected the Military and those who serve. We demand honesty, yet we wish these people to lie about who they are.

 

[Birds Away]

Ah, but I think the facts showed it wasn't a simple continuation. My take away was that it gave some commanders the authority and ability to persecute individuals for their sexual beliefs. If nothing else Don't Ask Don't Tell was a cowards response to what was really taking place.

Regardless the Military did take action and take a much different course later on. I forget if it was the Military Chief of Staff or the Army Chief of Staffs statement in front of Congress that changed this or not. Where he basically talked about the fact that the policy itself went against everything we expected the Military and those who serve. We demand honesty, yet we wish these people to lie about who they are.

To us it was a non-event. Nothing changed. Mostly because we were just too busy to worry about it. If it didn't effect our ability to do the mission then we just didn't have time for it. Having said that I know that there were overzealous people who were always looking for rules violators. They didn't particularly care what rule they just liked to be seen as the super, true blue, right thinkers. Whatever, the military is a microcosm of society and, with some exceptions, whatever you find in society you will also find in the military.

 

[Dddrees]

To us it was a non-event. Nothing changed. Mostly because we were just too busy to worry about it. If it didn't effect our ability to do the mission then we just didn't have time for it. Having said that I know that there were overzealous people who were always looking for rules violators. They didn't particularly care what rule they just liked to be seen as the super, true blue, right thinkers. Whatever, the military is a microcosm of society and, with some exceptions, whatever you find in society you will also find in the military.

And that's exactly the point. To you and me and most of our comrades it didn't matter who you were, it mattered most what you did and this had nothing to do with your sexual beliefs.


Unfortunately it's bad policies like Don't Ask But Don't Tell and this later one by Trump which tends to make matters only worse. I really think the Army Chief of Staff made the most important point when it came to integrity.

 

[OakRiver]

Seems Europe has concerns about the Russia sanctions; Russia sanctions: EU vows to retaliate over US measures - BBC News

Of course the report has these gems;
"The bill is likely to complicate the US president's hopes of improving relations with Russia.. . .
Russia's relationship with the president has dogged his first six months in office, amid allegations Moscow interfered to help Mr Trump get elected."
So, if Russia did truly help get Trump into office why does he need to improve relations with them?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Repeal and Replace fails so it looks like Repeal Only is up next.

So do you think they'll get their act together if only they had another seven years?


Not only that but do you think they'll ever be able to do anything with Tax Reform or the Infastructure.

No, they won't get their act together. The Democrats have made a cottage industry out of paying lip service to poverty while perpetuating it given that if they actually solve the problem they will have eliminated the rationale for a large portion of their base to continue voting for them. Likewise, if the Republicans actually solve the health care situation, they will not have anything to rally a similarly large portion of the base.

Tax reform? I don't know. There is as much polarization there as there is in health care.

Infrastructure? I could see it happening. The conservative Rs will oppose it, but I could see plenty of Ds jumping on it to scoop up some of the gravy for their districts.

 

[Dddrees]

No, they won't get their act together. The Democrats have made a cottage industry out of paying lip service to poverty while perpetuating it given that if they actually solve the problem they will have eliminated the rationale for a large portion of their base to continue voting for them. Likewise, if the Republicans actually solve the health care situation, they will not have anything to rally a similarly large portion of the base.

Tax reform? I don't know. There is as much polarization there as there is in health care.

Infrastructure? I could see it happening. The conservative Rs will oppose it, but I could see plenty of Ds jumping on it to scoop up some of the gravy for their districts.

Well if some think Obamacare is only about those individuals which don't get their insurance through their employer, Military, Congress, or Medicare then I think they're badly mistaken. If I'm not mistaken one of those items in Repeal has to do with the employer mandate. Sounds to me that that might possibly have an affect on the insurance one might get through their employer. I think it's been there since the beginning yet this hardly if ever comes up during a discussion over Obamacare.

 

[Dddrees]

Sounds like Trump wanted the LGBT vote but decided to through them under the bus after all.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/742771576039460864?lang=en

 

[Dddrees]

Regardless of how you feel Trumps roll out of the Transgender Military Ban by Tweet is not that much different from his Travel Ban. To Tweet something of this magnitude out before rolling it out more properly is extremely ill conceived.

 

[Birds Away]

And that's exactly the point. To you and me and most of our comrades it didn't matter who you were, it mattered most what you did and this had nothing to do with your sexual beliefs.


Unfortunately it's bad policies like Don't Ask But Don't Tell and this later one by Trump which tends to make matters only worse. I really think the Army Chief of Staff made the most important point when it came to integrity.

You're going to have to explain your position because I don't understand what you're trying to say. Why do you think it was bad policy? You want witch hunts going out looking for gays to prosecute?

 

[Dddrees]

You're going to have to explain your position because I don't understand what you're trying to say. Why do you think it was bad policy? You want witch hunts going out looking for gays to prosecute?

It was bad policy because that's the effect it had. Because of the policy the witch hunts basically were sanctioned.

It was bad policy because the US was basically saying you can be gay just make sure you lie about it and tell us your not. You can be gay just don't get caught doing it.

 

[Birds Away]

It was bad policy because that's the effect it had. Because of the policy the witch hunts basically were sanctioned.

Homosexual conduct is a violation of the UCMJ. It always has been. The Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy allowed commands to ignore it unless it openly presented itself as a problem. In my experience the witch hunts all happened before this policy was enacted. Before this policy was enacted it was a command's duty to investigate and prosecute such conduct. The policy allowed commands to turn a blind eye to it. It is true, though, that most commands were turning a blind eye to it even before the policy was enacted.