The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[BugI02]

View attachment 60388

 

[Alpo]

No, the game plan was to tell the public the investigation is getting results so trump can't shut down the fiasco.

months and months of nothing and then a leak of charges the same week mueller is found to be tainted and the Dems/Hillary created the dossier that led to the prosecutor in the first place. Come on.

Actually, it could easily be the other way around: GOP receives "news/rumors" of indictments in the immediate future and begins to spin disinformation to discredit the investigation. This is akin to eating all the red M&M's and then saying "Mom!? Suzie ate all the Snickers bars". Yes, they are both candy, but Suzie had nothing to do with the M&M bowl. Stick to the facts and the indictment and the truth might be close at hand. Or, allow the GOP/Trump/FoxNews to continue the obfuscation of one case with allegations of another. Most of us have now read the Uranium One press and find that a very thin soup. The GOP needs to try harder. Benghazi! Emails!

I'll wait until the idictments are handed down, but remember that the GOP movers and shakers initially funded the dossier. Not Hillary. Not Bernie. Your guys.

But, I surmise that what we are going to end up with is a violation of the laws surrounding collusion by a private citizen with a foreign power.

 

[actaeon277]

[video=youtube;GJ6sbtogBnI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ6sbtogBnI[/video]

 

[hoosierdoc]

Except we've been saying investigation is crap for a year. We've been detailing DNC/Russia collusion for longer

post your facts on the RNC funding the dossier. They hired the same firm that later created the dossier, among other smear campaigns done by fusion. And McCain and other RINOs certainly loved the dossier and passed it all over because they hated trump, but it is a pure work of fiction paid for by Hillary and DNC in a shadowy financial method to hide what they were doing. It's not "legal fees" to mark elias, it's opposition research paid for by laundering money through a lawyer to hide the real reason for the funds. it's fraud and was the basis for numerous warrants, wire taps, and a special prosecutor. BS

it used to be planting fake evidence was a horrendous crime that undermined our justic system and threatened our society. Now it's just opposition research. Eye roll.

espionage act, woah. I bet sandy berger, Hillary and Huma are nervous then

and point of order: RNC is not my side. They wanted Jeb and kasich. They are big government idiots

Actually, it could easily be the other way around: GOP receives "news/rumors" of indictments in the immediate future and begins to spin disinformation to discredit the investigation. This is akin to eating all the red M&M's and then saying "Mom!? Suzie ate all the Snickers bars". Yes, they are both candy, but Suzie had nothing to do with the M&M bowl. Stick to the facts and the indictment and the truth might be close at hand. Or, allow the GOP/Trump/FoxNews to continue the obfuscation of one case with allegations of another. Most of us have now read the Uranium One press and find that a very thin soup. The GOP needs to try harder. Benghazi! Emails!

I'll wait until the idictments are handed down, but remember that the GOP movers and shakers initially funded the dossier. Not Hillary. Not Bernie. Your guys.

But, I surmise that what we are going to end up with is a violation of the Espionage Act. And maybe more.

 

[Alpo]

Post my facts....I've said: Let's wait for the indictments. I've said it repeatedly.

I see no need to go further than that. If someone violated the law, allegedly, let's await the indictment. The rest is just garbage politics.

 

[jbombelli]

I bet they hammer Manafort.

 

[SSGSAD]

I'm the same way with liars.

Ok, b c, h c, gwb, ghwb, bho, .....

 

[hoosierdoc]

Post my facts....I've said: Let's wait for the indictments. I've said it repeatedly.

I see no need to go further than that. If someone violated the law, allegedly, let's await the indictment. The rest is just garbage politics.

You stated RNC funded it. Prove it

you countered my post by saying RNC funded too. You can't counter fact with opinion. Either you have evidence RNC funded it or you don't. If you don't, go back and take another shot at my statement.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I bet they hammer Manafort.

If he broke the law, then do it. Then move on to Clinton foundation. Break the camel's back.

 

[Alpo]

You stated RNC funded it. Prove it

you countered my post by saying RNC funded too. You can't counter fact with opinion. Either you have evidence RNC funded it or you don't. If you don't, go back and take another shot at my statement.

RNC? Did you read that somewhere? Show me.

I would think that if you are going on the attack, you'd have a quote from my posts. Do you?

 

[hoosierdoc]

RNC? Did you read that somewhere? Show me.

I would think that if you are going on the attack, you'd have a quote from my posts. Do you?

Sorry, "GOP movers and shakers"

you may now continue to defend your statement now that the nits are picked

 

[Alpo]

Read WaPo. I'm not sure what you might have missed if you are unable to misquote me properly.

Here is the latest. I haven't read it yet, but will get back to you if I was in error.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-winner:homepage/story&utm_term=.f121532c8c77

 

[hoosierdoc]

Pay wall says no

i have no doubt that jeb, kasich, McCain, and others pushed the dossier once it existed. McCain even flew a guy to England to get it.

I'd be surprised if they had a hand in creating it though. Those idiots wanted Hillary to win over trump. If the people's candidate wins and fixes a broken system it exposes them all for being the cause of the problem

 

[Alpo]

Loosely summarized:

The "dossier" was produced after Fusion had done opposition research for a prominent republican who owns Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website.

At one time, the FBI considered paying Fusion for Steele's research/dossier material, but decided against it. However, some of the material may have been used by the FBI to support FISA warrants against certain individuals in the Trump campaign.

The "dossier" consists primarily of "raw intelligence" which may or may not hold up to further scrutiny. However, some of the observations made by Steele are consistent with work by our own intelligence agencies which concluded:

“We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments.”

I'm not sure that is earth-shattering news at this point.

There is quite a bit of information on the Uranium deal, which WaPo believes President Trump promotes as "the biggest scandal since Watergate". Unfortunately, facts don't support Trump's claims. Regardless of all the behind the scenes machinations, none of the uranium in the deal can be exported. Some yellowcake is sent to Canada for processing but is returned to the USA for our internal use.

Net, net: Let's wait for the indictments and the charges and supporting evidence. At this point, I'm not sure who believes Trump on any given subject. Certainly not me.

 

[BugI02]

Read WaPo. I'm not sure what you might have missed if you are unable to misquote me properly.

Here is the latest. I haven't read it yet, but will get back to you if I was in error.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-winner:homepage/story&utm_term=.f121532c8c77

From your own cite:

What’s New: The DNC and Clinton campaign were revealed as the “Democratic donors” who paid Fusion GPS for Steele’s research. (Technically, Perkins Coie, the law firm of Marc Elias, an attorney representing the Clinton campaign and the DNC, funded the research.)


Separately, a “Republican donor” who had earlier hired Fusion GPS for information on Trump was revealed to be the Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website. But that earlier effort is unrelated to the Democratic-funded research that yielded the dossier, as Steele was hired by Fusion GPS after work for the Free Beacon had ended.

Care to back and fill?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Loosely summarized:

The "dossier" was produced after Fusion had done opposition research for a prominent republican who owns Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website.

At one time, the FBI considered paying Fusion for Steele's research/dossier material, but decided against it. However, some of the material may have been used by the FBI to support FISA warrants against certain individuals in the Trump campaign.

The "dossier" consists primarily of "raw intelligence" which may or may not hold up to further scrutiny. However, some of the observations made by Steele are consistent with work by our own intelligence agencies which concluded:



I'm not sure that is earth-shattering news at this point.

There is quite a bit of information on the Uranium deal, which WaPo believes President Trump promotes as "the biggest scandal since Watergate". Unfortunately, facts don't support Trump's claims. Regardless of all the behind the scenes machinations, none of the uranium in the deal can be exported. Some yellowcake is sent to Canada for processing but is returned to the USA for our internal use.

Net, net: Let's wait for the indictments and the charges and supporting evidence. At this point, I'm not sure who believes Trump on any given subject. Certainly not me.

That only applies to uranium mined in the United States. I seem to recall that the company controlled some foreign sources as well. You have also failed to account for the fact that they can interfere with necessary domestic uses for uranium (paging the US Navy) by simply refusing to produce.

 

[Alpo]

From your own cite:




Care to back and fill?

Where should I park the skip loader? LOL I'm not sure what the point is any more. Who's remark are we debating? Why is it important in light of indictment(s) that may be issued in the morning?

Is opposition research performed by both parties? Yes. Is opposition research legal? Sometimes.
Is alleged collusion with Russians by either side legal or a violation of the law (Logan Act, etc)? IANAL. I don't know. If there was a quid pro quo, what was the quid?
Has either side's Kompromat risen to the level where national security is at risk? Again, let's see what the indictment(s) say.

Trump squawking like a bluebird doesn't mean anything to me any more. He squawks just because he likes to hear his own noise. BUT, if we find out that there was something afoot that violated the law, I'll be interested.

Steele wasn't a part of the original Fusion project for the Washington Free Beacon, as far as we know. What is not clear is what information Steele was asked to corroborate and what new instructions were given.

 

[Alpo]

That only applies to uranium mined in the United States. I seem to recall that the company controlled some foreign sources as well. You have also failed to account for the fact that they can interfere with necessary domestic uses for uranium (paging the US Navy) by simply refusing to produce.

So? French companies, for example, control uranium outside of the US as well. Canada does too. It doesn't mean much, does it? If the uranium can't leave the USA, I'm not sure Russian ownership is any more evil than Umbrella Corp listed on the NYSE owning it, or Saudi Arabia owning a significant interest in the common stock of some of our strategic industries.

 

[BugI02]

So? French companies control uranium outside of the US as well. It doesn't mean much, does it? If the uranium can't leave the USA, I'm not sure Russian ownership is any more evil than Umbrella Corp listed on the NYSE owning it.

Which then just re-raises the question, is a speech by WJC really worth a half mill? Why did Russian interests lavish the Clinton Foundation with $145mill? What was the quo?

Is Putin a pedophile?

 

[Alpo]

Yeah. The speech payment isn't unusual in and of itself....but it is symptomatic of elite interlock, greed and overreach. The 145 million sounds ludicrous on its face and clearly the Clinton Foundation doesn't set right with most of us. It should be thoroughly audited and investigated. Influence peddling and pay to play are two terms that come to mind.But, to some extent, that's separate from these discussions and are not payments made while Hillary held public office. Did it buy influence? How could it not influence any reasonable man? It's a big number. However, the Uranium One deal doesn't appear to be more than noise.

In the end, Hillary did not get elected and her influence isn't worth much to anyone any more.

Even if Trump is found to have committed high crimes and misdemeanors, Hillary ain't getting back in the White House.