The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[SheepDog4Life]

Well, let's see if he indicted or cuts a deal shall we. Judges, on TWO separate occasions, granted FISA warrants. It looks like ole Manafort is either going to prison (ironically compliments of the Trump DoJ) or he's going to cut a deal.... or the president can call the whole thing shenanigans and pardon him. Lol

Investigative "fishing trip" on one's political opponents is not Nixonian at all!

Recall that the much lower bar for FISA warrants is because it is FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE not big brother monitoring all actions of its citizens. If indicted, let's see how far removed from foreign intelligence the crime is...

Note that almost EVERY Democratic senator and representative has some sort of contact with foreign governments and/or agents of some kind. Are you comfortable with the Trump administration putting a FISA on... every... single... one... of... them? Just to see who's dirty, of course.

Or, perhaps just the leading contenders for the 2020 nomination? That is what this looks like in the rear view mirror...

NSA Illegal Surveillance of Americans -- Obama Administration Abuse & FISA Court Response | National Review

 

[bwframe]

[video=youtube;CIWpWaG0drs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIWpWaG0drs[/video]

 

[ghitch75]

Samantha Power sought to unmask Americans on almost daily basis, sources say | Fox News

 

[Kutnupe14]

Samantha Power sought to unmask Americans on almost daily basis, sources say | Fox News

I take it you aren't impressed with the Sessions DoJ and it's failure to act on such things.

 

[jbombelli]

I take it you aren't impressed with the Sessions DoJ and it's failure to act on such things.

I'm not impressed with Sessions all the way around. He *is* the swamp. But to be fair to Trump, when you wade into the middle of a swamp you usually find yourself surrounded by swamp creatures.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I take it you aren't impressed with the Sessions DoJ and it's failure to act on such things.

IMO, political "dirty tricks" and abuse of power that make Nixon look like a rank amateur... burglars, hah! Voters should be very concerned about ever again giving power to such a regime.

But, the question is, what laws did it break? Where is the literal crime?

 

[bwframe]

How fast do you expect Sessions to dig his way out of ALL of the Obama administration's illegal actions?

We heard about illegal stuff out of them for the whole 8 years. Just imagine the stuff they snuck by while they were getting away with the rest.

I'll be happy to see him all all of his co-conspirators looking like this:



It's gonna take some time though. And yes, I hope and pray Sessons has the nads to do it.

 

[ghitch75]

I take it you aren't impressed with the Sessions DoJ and it's failure to act on such things.

i'm not impressed with anything just post a story to talk about...

 

[OakRiver]

Investigative "fishing trip" on one's political opponents is not Nixonian at all!

Recall that the much lower bar for FISA warrants is because it is FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE not big brother monitoring all actions of its citizens. If indicted, let's see how far removed from foreign intelligence the crime is...

Note that almost EVERY Democratic senator and representative has some sort of contact with foreign governments and/or agents of some kind. Are you comfortable with the Trump administration putting a FISA on... every... single... one... of... them? Just to see who's dirty, of course.

Or, perhaps just the leading contenders for the 2020 nomination? That is what this looks like in the rear view mirror...

NSA Illegal Surveillance of Americans -- Obama Administration Abuse & FISA Court Response | National Review

This is always the precedent with Administrations over extending, they rarely seem to consider that they are setting a precedent and that some day they may not be in power and will themselves be subject to their own practices.

 

[jamil]

I take it you aren't impressed with the Sessions DoJ and it's failure to act on such things.

I'm kinda neutral on Sessions. But what can he do? Going after corruption in the previous administration is not straightforward. He has to have political capital, which he doesn't have. Part of what prevents it is the self feeding nature of the swamp. The game of throwns. People at that level just never see the justice they deserve. I only take the satisfaction that at least the DoJ is no longer led by cultural Marxists.

 

[indiucky]

The game of throwns.

Somebody rep this boy for me....That's some damn fine wordplay right there.....

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm kinda neutral on Sessions. But what can he do? Going after corruption in the previous administration is not straightforward. He has to have political capital, which he doesn't have. Part of what prevents it is the self feeding nature of the swamp. The game of throwns. People at that level just never see the justice they deserve. I only take the satisfaction that at least the DoJ is no longer led by cultural Marxists.

...or perhaps there isn't corruption.

 

[bwframe]

Wouldn't be the first time Clapper looked us in the eye and lied. Wonder if he or his bosses will be held accountable?

[video=youtube;mrO7ePSOM6w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrO7ePSOM6w[/video]

[video=youtube;EmDXpW-4V5M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmDXpW-4V5M[/video]

 

[Kutnupe14]

[video=youtube;EmDXpW-4V5M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmDXpW-4V5M[/video]

He says" if he (Obama) ordered the illegal wiretapping of his (Trump's) offices." You may call it nitpicking, but the wiretaps were legal (obviously), Trump's offices were not "tapped" (rather Manafort's lines), and it is unknown if Obama "ordered" the tapping of Manafort, or if the feds took it upon themselves to do so upon seeing an issue. You can't craft a perjury case out of what Clapper said, because it's all factual. Standalone, the fact that the wiretap was legal, makes everything else moot, unless some other instance arises in which another illegal wiretap comes to light.

 

[jamil]

...or perhaps there isn't corruption.

I thought D was on a timeout. I keep seeing these dodgey/shifty posts.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I thought D was on a timeout. I keep seeing these dodgey/shifty posts.

How is pointing out the fact that there hasn't been any legal action taken on believed corruption, and posing that the reason no action was taken, may be because none exist, dodgey/shifty?

 

[2A_Tom]

I have seen a couple of people attribute Posts to D that were way beyond his level of argument.

He was very straight forward in his hatred for Trump. There was no nuance in his delivery.

 

[jamil]

D liked to apply different standards to what he chose to believe as opposed to what he applied to others.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

He says" if he (Obama) ordered the illegal wiretapping of his (Trump's) offices." You may call it nitpicking, but the wiretaps were legal (obviously), Trump's offices were not "tapped" (rather Manafort's lines), and it is unknown if Obama "ordered" the tapping of Manafort, or if the feds took it upon themselves to do so upon seeing an issue. You can't craft a perjury case out of what Clapper said, because it's all factual. Standalone, the fact that the wiretap was legal, makes everything else moot, unless some other instance arises in which another illegal wiretap comes to light.

That's not obvious at all... Using a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act against a US citizen on US soil... this is not "incidental" surveillance of a citizen while surveilling a foreign entity.

 

[Kutnupe14]

That's not obvious at all... Using a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act against a US citizen on US soil... this is not "incidental" surveillance of a citizen while surveilling a foreign entity.

No, it obviously was legal. I LE applies for a warrant, and all of the elements with in it are don't meet the requirements for it to be granted, then it's not to be issued. Even if Obama ordered an illegal wiretapping, at the point a judge granted it, it became legal. The onus falls on the judge. Once the judge grants it, regardless if it shouldn't have been issued, serving that warrant is indeed legal.
I also don't see what the issue is with using FISA against a US citizen, if the warrant is proper, and there is credible information that the US Citizen is working in the interests of a foreign power, at the detriment of the United States. If there Rosenberg's were living today, I'd imagine that a FISA warrant would have been a good tool to use.