The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[KLB]

How so? The Democrats clarified their position.

I hadn't seen the clarification. The reports this morning said Dems claimed deal for DACA, and Trump tweeted there was no deal.

 

[jamil]

The first thing GWB did was try to make nice with the democrats. That gave us no child left behind and senior precriprion drugs to name a couple.

GHWB gave in to the dems and and allowed then to just pass a tiny tax, which was his death nell.

RR signed amnesty to get border security.

Give a dem a cookie and he will want a cookie. If the dems wanted to euthanuse all republicans this year the republicans would only agree to phase it in over three years.

Hold on. NCLB and prescription medicare was "compassionate conservatism". That was Neocon collectivism all the way.

 

[2A_Tom]

You are right. GWB called in 4 top Democrats and asked them to craft bi-partisan legislation in four different areas. I do not remember who or what in most cases, but the one I do remember Ted Kennedy was charged with NCLB.

GWB extended the olive branch to the dems and I knew as soon as I heard it that they would take all they could get and bite off his hand. I was right and his place in history is tarnished because he tried to work with those who can never be trusted.

I disagree with the term Neocon, because it undefinable. I have heard at leasy three different definitions and they are all derrogatory.

 

[ghitch75]

Graham threatens to subpoena Comey, as pressure mounts to clear up Clinton case confusion | Fox News

 

[PaulF]

You WANT single payer?

I want to see single payer discussed rationally.

There is a strong argument that a lack of socialized healthcare puts our workers at at competitive disadvantage when compared to the workers in other countries. Let's suppose an international manufacturing business is looking for a place to open a new factory. If the choice comes down to the US vs Canada, or France, or Japan one thing they have to consider is the cost of providing healthcare insurance in the most volatile healthcare market on the planet. In Indiana insurance comes directly off the balance sheet, but in Japan an individual employee covers the tax burden for these services. In other words, they get to pass the cost of health insurance off onto someone else.

There is also a strong argument that socialized medicine produces an overall populace in better general heath, and those workers are better prepared to face the challenges of full-time employment, and therefore potentially more attractive as employees.

I want to see it discussed, because any honest discussion would, I think, necessarily come to the conclusion that *national* socialized healthcare is practically unworkable, and there is no authority granted to the Federal by the Constitution to do so even if they had the political capital to accomplish it.

I would like to see the more liberal states be free to pursue "single-payer" on the state level and start to generate some data about how a system like that would actually work here. Ideally, several states would try different approaches and we would be able to compare outcomes with actual data, rather than speculation and inference.

 

[ghitch75]

'Pay-to-play' at Clinton State Department exposed in new emails, watchdog says | Fox News

 

[bwframe]

We discussed socialized healthcare last year. That conversation is over. It was decided to end it.

 

[PaulF]

We discussed socialized healthcare last year. That conversation is over. It was decided to end it.

Mmmmmmm...okay. So that's why we still have Obamacare, right? I mean, despite the president and every single republican congressman having had run on, and been elected to enact, a repeal of Obamacare.

Such an inspiring and effective leader is he that, with a republican control of ALL THREE branches of government, he cannot pass legislation based on the campaign promises of every single elected republican in the federal government.

I don't know who this "we" you keep referring to is...Trump used you to gain power, and has never looked back. If the lobbyists *for* socialized healthcare do a better job of stroking Trump's ego than the *against* side does he will sign single-payer into law.

From Trump's view "we" is him and his ego, Republican voters were nothing more than a stepping stone to greater power, and your desires are entirely dismissible.

 

[jamil]

I want to see single payer discussed rationally.

There is a strong argument that a lack of socialized healthcare puts our workers at at competitive disadvantage when compared to the workers in other countries. Let's suppose an international manufacturing business is looking for a place to open a new factory. If the choice comes down to the US vs Canada, or France, or Japan one thing they have to consider is the cost of providing healthcare insurance in the most volatile healthcare market on the planet. In Indiana insurance comes directly off the balance sheet, but in Japan an individual employee covers the tax burden for these services. In other words, they get to pass the cost of health insurance off onto someone else.

There is also a strong argument that socialized medicine produces an overall populace in better general heath, and those workers are better prepared to face the challenges of full-time employment, and therefore potentially more attractive as employees.

I want to see it discussed, because any honest discussion would, I think, necessarily come to the conclusion that *national* socialized healthcare is practically unworkable, and there is no authority granted to the Federal by the Constitution to do so even if they had the political capital to accomplish it.

I would like to see the more liberal states be free to pursue "single-payer" on the state level and start to generate some data about how a system like that would actually work here. Ideally, several states would try different approaches and we would be able to compare outcomes with actual data, rather than speculation and inference.

I want *healthcare* discussed rationally. But no. We have to endure progressives claiming healthcare as a public right, and that not having single payer is immoral. A rational discussion of the pros and cons of single payer is impossible when the proponents thereof can't even acknowledge that rationality is even a thing to strive for.

 

[Alpo]

This video is 4 or so years old, but it's one I remember. [video=youtube_share;qSjGouBmo0M]http://youtu.be/qSjGouBmo0M[/video]

 

[jamil]

This video is 4 or so years old, but it's one I remember.

I already know why American Healthcare is so expensive. I've experienced it myself. The whole system, top to bottom ensures the utmost fleecing of consumers, with absolutely zero market influences to reduce prices. Obamacare exacerbates this.

 

[Dddrees]

I am not so sure it is a complete lack of conviction. It could just as easily be that he sees Rome burning and is willing to play ball with any coalition which will buy him a fire truck.

When it comes down to brass tacks Trump only cares about Trump.

 

[ghitch75]

When it comes down to brass tacks Trump only cares about Trump.

ok i have seen this a lot and no evidence of it......his agenda and the GOP yes but him himself no....

 

[Dddrees]

ok i have seen this a lot and no evidence of it......his agenda and the GOP yes but him himself no....

And he doesn't lie as well. LOL

 

[Alpo]

I already know why American Healthcare is so expensive. I've experienced it myself. The whole system, top to bottom ensures the utmost fleecing of consumers, with absolutely zero market influences to reduce prices. Obamacare exacerbates this.

Actually, Obamacare has accomplished very little when it comes to prices. It is also not the reason prices are high.

 

[Dddrees]

I already know why American Healthcare is so expensive. I've experienced it myself. The whole system, top to bottom ensures the utmost fleecing of consumers, with absolutely zero market influences to reduce prices. Obamacare exacerbates this.

Healthcare by all accounts was a mess way before and will always be with or without Obamacare Care.

 

[indiucky]

Healthcare by all accounts was a mess way before and will always be with or without Obamacare Care.

Compared to the rest of the world we are very blessed regarding our healthcare....

IMHO

 

[bwframe]

Mmmmmmm...okay. So that's why we still have Obamacare, right? I mean, despite the president and every single republican congressman having had run on, and been elected to enact, a repeal of Obamacare...

We certainly have squabbling as to how to do it, but it will get done. There are traitors among us that need to be eliminated. We may have to wait for that? There will be further strides in 2018, maybe even numbers that cannot be countered.

Socialized healthcare has proven to be the failure it was forecasted to be. It cannot sustain itself. The lies that were told to get this passed are now common knowledge, not just just to those who said this all along.

 

[Kutnupe14]

ok i have seen this a lot and no evidence of it......his agenda and the GOP yes but him himself no....

He seems to changes hats quite a bit. Outside of of Naval hats given to him... you can have one just like the president!
https://shop.donaldjtrump.com/collections/headwear

 

[Dddrees]

Compared to the rest of the world we are very blessed regarding our healthcare....

IMHO

If we're so smart, we could actually do much better.