The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[OakRiver]

Be that as it may, I'm half Irish, not Celtish which has never been a people who resided in Ireland.

Is that so?

Celtic Ireland in the Iron Age: the Celts

The Celts of Ancient Ireland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts
"By the mid-1st millennium, with the expansion of the Roman Empire and the Migration Period of Germanic peoples, Celtic culture and Insular Celtic languages had become restricted to Ireland, the western and northern parts of Great Britain (Wales, Scotland, and Cornwall), the Isle of Man, and Brittany."


"Insular Celtic culture diversified into that of the Gaels (Irish, Scottish and Manx)"

"The Celtic languages form a branch of the larger Indo-European family. By the time speakers of Celtic languages entered history around 400 BC, they were already split into several language groups, and spread over much of Western continental Europe, the Iberian Peninsula, Ireland and Britain."

 

[jamil]

Well, you obviously are relying on bad information, and a belief in what you want to be true, rather than what is. First you give me nonsense over what you'd like to believe MO said based on the reliability of lip reading.... and of course the statement she made, you believe she made when she became "queen" of what? The "US?" Are you clear that she wasn't First Lady, Barack hadn't even won the election, let alone the Democratic nomination, when she made that statement? You're placing your opinion purely in what you want to believe, obviously not based on anything factual.

I think we're both looking at it from our own biases. I'm doing it intentionally. Nevertheless, you've apparently misinterpreted each thing I said.

The "queen" refers to the leftist tendency to fantasize about the presidency as royalty. It happens in every election where the left has decided where its loyalties go. Like all the "Camelot" nonsense the elitists start to talk about when there is a particular candidate that suits their fantasies. Of course, I'm aware of the context of her statement. Its relevance is the evidence of an attitude consistent with my conclusions. Of course, my personal biases inform some conclusions, just as yours have all throughout this thread and others. And I'll admit I've pushed things to get you to show yours. And to some extent you have.

I can't help but wonder what underlies your inference of my motivations, but your response gives me the sense that it's not what I implied.

 

[Alpo]

Yeah...political parody is OK. Sometimes even funny. Political spouses and children NOT.

I do have an exception though: When the spouse takes on a "cause" whether it be "just say no" or "eat more rutabaga", they are fair game in that regard. But we both know there was a lot of hue and cry over Mrs Obama and her "proud of my country" gaff among other things. I think it's hypocritical to now ask for Mrs. Trump to get a pass on all things.

 

[jamil]

This thread has certainly taken a turn for the worse. I didn't really think that was possible. So now it is appropriate to snipe at the various First Ladies? Just because CNN has no standards doesn't mean the INGO political forum should follow suit.

My apologies for my participation in that. It's really not helping anything. It's only helping the conversation to get testier.

 

[Alpo]

Is that so?

Celtic Ireland in the Iron Age: the Celts

The Celts of Ancient Ireland





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts
"By the mid-1st millennium, with the expansion of the Roman Empire and the Migration Period of Germanic peoples, Celtic culture and Insular Celtic languages had become restricted to Ireland, the western and northern parts of Great Britain (Wales, Scotland, and Cornwall), the Isle of Man, and Brittany."


"Insular Celtic culture diversified into that of the Gaels (Irish, Scottish and Manx)"

"The Celtic languages form a branch of the larger Indo-European family. By the time speakers of Celtic languages entered history around 400 BC, they were already split into several language groups, and spread over much of Western continental Europe, the Iberian Peninsula, Ireland and Britain."

Resided is the wrong word. Founded...or indigineous...is what I was thinking. Irish history and people pre-date the Celts...surely you are aware of this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-know-about-the-irish/?utm_term=.96af7b7e9c64

One of many possible quotes from the article:

“What it shows is that the language that became Irish was already out there — before 700 B.C. and before the Iron Age,” Koch said. “It just didn’t fit with the traditional theory of Celtic spreading west to Britain and Iberia.”

That has been a traditional belief in my family for countless generations, as relayed to me by my grandfather. We are not Celtish.

 

[printcraft]

Yeah...political parody is OK. Sometimes even funny. Political spouses and children NOT.

I do have an exception though: When the spouse takes on a "cause" whether it be "just say no" or "eat more rutabaga", they are fair game in that regard. But we both know there was a lot of hue and cry over Mrs Obama and her "proud of my country" gaff among other things. I think it's hypocritical to now ask for Mrs. Trump to get a pass on all things.

Yeah, but Kut would only take a lap dance from one of them.

 

[OakRiver]

Resided is the wrong word. Founded...or indigineous...is what I was thinking. Irish history and people pre-date the Celts...surely you are aware of this?

Having been born there and having spent the first 29 years of my life there I am absolutely aware of this, just as I am absolutely aware of the difference between saying that Celts have "never been a people who resided in Ireland." and saying that there was a culture in Ireland that predated the Celts.

That has been a traditional belief in my family for countless generations, as relayed to me by my grandfather. We are not Celtish.

Your one quote does not overturn countless academic works and established history. The discovery of a people that pre-exist the Celts is not proof that the Celts never existed in Ireland. You may as well make the claim that the remains of Native Americans disprove that there was later settlement of the United States by others.

Believe what you so wish, you may not be of Celtic descent but the chances of having no Celtic influence on your DNA is almost nil if you can trace your origin to Ireland after the Iron Age.

https://www.ancestry.com/dna/ethnicity/irish
Ancient DNA sheds light on Irish origins - BBC News

 

[indiucky]

My apologies for my participation in that. It's really not helping anything. It's only helping the conversation to get testier.

On it....

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Any discussion about the impending Amnesty legislation? Anybody laying odds it wont happen before tax reform, Obamacare repeal, the wall, or any other legislation we thought we'd get with a Trump administration?

 

[jamil]

On it....

Okay. Wait. What were we talking about?

 

[Alpo]

Having been born there and having spent the first 29 years of my life there I am absolutely aware of this, just as I am absolutely aware of the difference between saying that Celts have "never been a people who resided in Ireland." and saying that there was a culture in Ireland that predated the Celts.



Your one quote does not overturn countless academic works and established history. The discovery of a people that pre-exist the Celts is not proof that the Celts never existed in Ireland. You may as well make the claim that the remains of Native Americans disprove that there was later settlement of the United States by others.

Believe what you so wish, you may not be of Celtic descent but the chances of having no Celtic influence on your DNA is almost nil if you can trace your origin to Ireland after the Iron Age.

https://www.ancestry.com/dna/ethnicity/irish
Ancient DNA sheds light on Irish origins - BBC News

You must have missed the part where I said "resided" was the wrong word....oh....you quoted it. Then it must be a loss in the translation.

Saying there is Celtic influence in my DNA is like saying there is Neanderthal influence in my DNA. Certainly, it's there. So what?

As to established history....well, let's see where the science leads us, shall we? Established history had the Earth flat and situated at the center of the solar system, no plate tectonics, etc. If you rely up DNA then you should believe what the DNA studies indicate (if born out by further validation studies).

 

[jamil]

Any discussion about the impending Amnesty legislation? Anybody laying odds it wont happen before tax reform, Obamacare repeal, the wall, or any other legislation we thought we'd get with a Trump administration?

This sounds like the most "bipartisan" thing that could happen. I'd just like to see an honest debate happen from all sides of the issue. There has to be a reasonable balance between sincere individual compassion and the need for borders that mean something. I tend to think government isn't the place for compassion. But when government creates a situation that requires collective compassion like this is, there has to be a better way out of it than "amnisty". It's obvious to me that the Left really didn't want to solve the problem because they dumped it when they controlled both legislative houses and the executive branch. It's also obvious to me that the power brokers don't really want an honest discussion about it. They keep pushing straw monsters.

 

[Alpo]

Perhaps it's economic as well. You get rid of the shadow economy driven by the use of illegals and the economy contracts. And, actual work does not get done (at least in the short term and ultimately it will be pricier in the long term).

No one wants to lose the productivity that most of these folks bring to the market, or their willingness to accept substandard "everything" just to be a part of this society. I'm not saying we don't need something like a National ID card, but I also have seen the fruits of what Mexican people have done for us since I was a kid in California farm country.

 

[jamil]

Perhaps it's economic as well. You get rid of the shadow economy driven by the use of illegals and the economy contracts. And, actual work does not get done (at least in the short term and ultimately it will be pricier in the long term).

No one wants to lose the productivity that most of these folks bring to the market, or their willingness to accept substandard "everything" just to be a part of this society. I'm not saying we don't need something like a National ID card, but I also have seen the fruits of what Mexican people have done for us since I was a kid in California farm country.

That's a good point. But I think the chamber-o-commerce style Republicans mostly like the benefits of the cheap labor. For the ideological left, I think it's more that they like the extra political clout as well as the boost in dead people voting democrat.

 

[2A_Tom]

Any discussion about the impending Amnesty legislation? Anybody laying odds it wont happen before tax reform, Obamacare repeal, the wall, or any other legislation we thought we'd get with a Trump administration?

Until you brought it up it was confined to the Trump imigration thread.

 

[indiucky]

That's a good point. But I think the chamber-o-commerce style Republicans mostly like the benefits of the cheap labor. For the ideological left, I think it's more that they like the extra political clout as well as the boost in dead people voting democrat.

QFT

 

[indiucky]

Okay. Wait. What were we talking about?

Mammynun's trip to the Grand Tetons.....

 

[Trigger Time]

Well, you obviously are relying on bad information, and a belief in what you want to be true, rather than what is. First you give me nonsense over what you'd like to believe MO said based on the reliability of lip reading.... and of course the statement she made, you believe she made when she became "queen" of what? The "US?" Are you clear that she wasn't First Lady, Barack hadn't even won the election, let alone the Democratic nomination, when she made that statement? You're placing your opinion purely in what you want to believe, obviously not based on anything factual.

Na she said that during the innaugural parade. She said ****ing flag and not stupid flag

 

[jamil]

Na she said that during the innaugural parade. She said ****ing flag and not stupid flag

It's unnecessary to establish when she said it for my purposes. But no. She said it at a campaign event in February 2008, referring to democrats starting to rally around Barack.

This was the statement:

“For the first time in my adult lifetime, I’m really proud of my country … not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change... I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment.”

That's a very politically divisive statement. But for my point, it serves the example I meant it to outside of when she said it.

 

[JettaKnight]

I heard a story about DACA on NPR... yeah, yeah, I know.

Anyways, I pretty sympathetic with the immigrants... till I heard the protesters chanting in Spanish.