The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[Dddrees]

Ok I'll give you one thing. I'm glad that he eliminated don't ask don't tell.
If I sat down and really thought about it i could come up with a fee things. But I still believe he is a traitor.
My point is that there was not enough good to even come close to all of the bad

I understand, just remember hypocrisy isn't always one sided and I'll admit to it as well. This however doesn't mean I can't strongly disagree with something because I find it objectionable or wrong no matter who it is. It maybe harder to do so or it maybe harder to agree with somebody but it doesn't mean I'm not genuine with this one. Hell being here you guys have me questioning this even more. But I stand by this one.

 

[Trigger Time]

how about: Obama has succeeded as much as any other immigrant to this country. Perhaps that's why he's always praising our country and its founding principles

Lol exactly.
I've said before here that I don't even believe that Obama was even eligible to be president and what he did over his time in office is exactly why the constitution mandates the office of President must be occupied by a natural born citizen.
Right now people still point and laugh at people they call birthers but I believe history will prove us right and shoe that Obama was an imposter and knew it and others who helped him and covered it up did too. And they should be in jail

 

[Trigger Time]

I understand, just remember hypocrisy isn't always one sided and I'll admit to it as well. This however doesn't mean I can't strongly disagree with something because I find it objectionable or wrong no matter who it is. It maybe harder to do so or it maybe harder to agree with somebody but it doesn't mean I'm not genuine with this one. Hell being here you guys have me questioning this even more. But I stand by this one.

Hypocracy is still the wrong word if that was your point.

Younare questioning your beliefs because you are learning Ruth's here that ultimately will show the crap liberal storyline you've been fed is an intentional lie. No the Republican party isn't perfect but it isn't shredding the constitution that you took an oath to protect and defend like your democrats are. Your oath never expired.seek out the truth.
I listen to the democrats and the republicans talk. I find the truth. I don't trust either. Trump doesn't represent the Republican establishment and that's why I love him

 

[Dddrees]

You don't think a status of forces agreement could have been reached if Obama wanted It? Come on. Don't get hung up on b.s.
Also we were still in Iraq. It's smoke in mirrors

Also I'm glad you have your opinion. It's a.free country. I just have My opinions too and in a debate type setting like this I'm going to fight tooth and nail for my opinions and not others. It doesn't mean everyi be shares my opinions but in my opinion they are wrong and that is why I argue my opinion. Same as in a court. Same as in a.debate. you don't concede the other person is right when you are trying to win.
Out in public I wouldn't argue with you. I'd be polite and walk,away
If you said something I don't like. But this is the stage for debate

I can't tell you for certain. I wasn't in the room. I have good reason to believe that they had good reason to object. If they really wanted us there they would have offered without issue. The fact remains because they didn't they didn't realy want us there. In South Korea their leaders appease the populace with a lot of rhetoric against us, but in the long run they side with us because they want us there. If Iraq's leaders wanted us there Obama wouldn't had to do anything to pressure them.

 

[Dddrees]

Hypocracy is still the wrong word if that was your point.

Okay, I'll back off of that. It just came across to me as such.

 

[Destro]

You don't think a status of forces agreement could have been reached if Obama wanted It? Come on. Don't get hung up on b.s.
Also we were still in Iraq. It's smoke in mirrors

I don't. The Iraqi government did not seem interested, at least publicly, in renegotiating a SOFA. Popular opinion in Iraq didn't support it either. I think it was unlikely to happen, and the conditions would have been intolerable for us. It is my understanding that the limited amount of troops there now, (as compared to 150k+) are covered under a favorable SOFA.

I wanted us to stay.

 

[2A_Tom]

I truly don't mean to offend you but sometimes you say things I would never expect to hear from someone who actually served. I really don't want to call your service into question but some of your comments just don't really fit. I am willing to accept that I am wrong in this and that you are just an anomaly. Maybe it's an Army thing.

Hey! Don't lump his opinions in with tha Army.

I taught OPSEC and SAEDA to grunts, but then, you would still be suprised what our CI guys would find digging through dumpsters.

 

[Trigger Time]

I can't tell you for certain. I wasn't in the room. I have good reason to believe that they had good reason to object. If they really wanted us there they would have offered without issue. The fact remains because they didn't they didn't realy want us there. In South Korea their leaders appease the populace with a lot of rhetoric against us, but in the long run they side with us because they want us there. If Iraq's leaders wanted us there Obama wouldn't had to do anything to pressure them.

Drum beating to appease their citizens out front and handshakes in the back with money in the other hand. The Iraqi government will do whatever we want within reason as long as they have the illusion to their people of being in control and as long as we keep paying to be there. That is all is boils down to in a nutshell.
I spent a lot of time there and in Afghanistan. I know more about those ****hole first hand than I care to.
Their government still needs fear to rule. As long as we turn a blind eye to that as well.

 

[Dddrees]

I truly don't mean to offend you but sometimes you say things I would never expect to hear from someone who actually served. I really don't want to call your service into question but some of your comments just don't really fit. I am willing to accept that I am wrong in this and that you are just an anomaly. Maybe it's an Army thing.

Well that maybe not your intention but you do. Now, I'll try not to call your service into question just because I disagree with you.

 

[Dddrees]

Drum beating to appease their citizens out front and handshakes in the back with money in the other hand. The Iraqi government will do whatever we want within reason as long as they have the illusion to their people of being in control and as long as we keep paying to be there. That is all is boils down to in a nutshell.
I spent a lot of time there and in Afghanistan. I know more about those ****hole first hand than I care to

But it doesn't appear they were willing to give on this one.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Reagan vs Ford although Ford wasn't even elected in the first place.

Pat Buchanan vs Bush Sr.

Eugene McCarthy started running in 68 before Johnson formally announced he wasn't running. Although he finished Kennedys term this was his first term officially. Robert Kennedy and Hobert Humphrey entered the race after Johnson announced he wouldn't seek reelection.

It is important to understand that both of the instances you cite regarding the Republican Party were challengers acting independently not only without support but with the opposition of the party. The likely scenario if this happens in 2020 would be a party-backed and supported challenger in much the same way as the state GOP found a challenger to run and primary out John Waterman, redistricted to facilitate that effort, and backed the challenger fully including finding donors to put up incredible amounts of money, with the central figure in orchestrating this being our now-governor. I could easily see someone in the RNC doing likewise pulling every string available to get rid of Trump and replace him with a comfortable RINO.

Kasich is weak and low energy. He would make a disappointing swing manager at Wendy's. He is not rational, some people just think he is "safe" or whatever.

Good to see you are still with us, and I agree completely regarding Kasich.

iMO, leaving now would be another Obama-like pullout of Iraq, allowing another ISIS to synthesize, regardless of the name it goes by.

Of the items Trump did mention, eliminating Pakistan as a safe haven for the Taliban, to rest, to train and to flee counter-attacks, is a necessary component of defeating the Taliban. I'm not familiar with Pakistan politics to determine if the Pakistani President/PM is strong enough to resist the backlash from the large portions of his population that "support" the terrorists, either directly or politically.

And, how resilient the President will be when the Taliban inevitably parades out the bodies of women and children they claim were killed in attacks. The media will accept all stories as factual, whether they are or not.

Absolutely right. I would add that our participation in pushing General Musharraf out of office was self-defeating in keeping Pakistan stable and safe.

how about: Obama has succeeded as much as any other immigrant to this country. Perhaps that's why he's always praising our country and its founding principles

Lol exactly.
I've said before here that I don't even believe that Obama was even eligible to be president and what he did over his time in office is exactly why the constitution mandates the office of President must be occupied by a natural born citizen.
Right now people still point and laugh at people they call birthers but I believe history will prove us right and shoe that Obama was an imposter and knew it and others who helped him and covered it up did too. And they should be in jail

Well said, both of you. Given that his grandma spoke of witnessing his birth in Kenya, he spoke of it until he started running for president, his mother had not lived enough of her life in the US to go that route, and no credible proof has ever been presented, I fail to see where the left ever had an argument other than ridiculing and sealing records. His behavior, and lack of any loyalty to the United States seem to support this.

 

[Dddrees]

It is important to understand that both of the instances you cite regarding the Republican Party were challengers acting independently not only without support but with the opposition of the party. The likely scenario if this happens in 2020 would be a party-backed and supported challenger in much the same way as the state GOP found a challenger to run and primary out John Waterman, redistricted to facilitate that effort, and backed the challenger fully including finding donors to put up incredible amounts of money, with the central figure in orchestrating this being our now-governor. I could easily see someone in the RNC doing likewise pulling every string available to get rid of Trump and replace him with a comfortable RINO.



Good to see you are still with us, and I agree completely regarding Kasich.



Absolutely right. I would add that our participation in pushing General Musharraf out of office was self-defeating in keeping Pakistan stable and safe.





Well said, both of you. Given that his grandma spoke of witnessing his birth in Kenya, he spoke of it until he started running for president, his mother had not lived enough of her life in the US to go that route, and no credible proof has ever been presented, I fail to see where the left ever had an argument other than ridiculing and sealing records. His behavior, and lack of any loyalty to the United States seem to support this.

As you said that would be a rather unique dynamic if the party supports the challenger in this case.

 

[Trigger Time]

But it doesn't appear they were willing to give on this one.

You can't say that because we probably intentionally withheld what they wanted because Obama wanted out so by them not agreeing to the terms our dos offered then it allowed Obama to come to the American people and his detractors and say hey I tried but it was the Iraqis who didn't want us there and kicked us out. It was a ruse

 

[printcraft]

Ok, let's try and turn the tables.

Let me hear your best compliment that you have for Obama.

His boyfriend looks good in a dress and heels.

 

[Trigger Time]

DD, something else I want to say just,so you know I don't blindly follow anyone. I already mentioned I supported Obama's change to don't ask,don't tell. But I also supported (against most republocans) his decision to open up am embassy in Cuba. Although I didn't agree with all of the policy surrounding it.
I stated those opinions here on ingo at the times. I'm not against agreeing with the other side if I believe it is right by the constitution or in America's best interest. The constitution is all I really care about supporting. Majority opinions do not matter to me especially when or if they venture off coarse from the foundation of this nation. Also,I've admitted to being wrong before and I'm not ever against changing my mind. I've done it plenty.

 

[2A_Tom]

Who said I was happy with it? You? That don't make it so.


Keep in mind some of us could actually support someone and not support every little thing they do. I think this was used against me with regards to my little thing with Trump and his supporters.

Ah well.

I was not happy with Obama's Policies, but I didn't want him asasinated. Since he took an oath to support and defend the Constitution and tried on many occasions he attempted to circumvent it, I did think he should have been impeached. He seemed to be a nice enough fellow, but not pro American.

 

[Dddrees]

You can't say that because we probably intentionally withheld what they wanted because Obama wanted out so by them not agreeing to the terms our dos offered then it allowed Obama to come to the American people and his detractors and say hey I tried but it was the Iraqis who didn't want us there and kicked us out. It was a ruse

I don't buy that and no it's not just because I support Obama. It's just I don't buy it and have no reason at this point too. He did stay in and raised troop levels in Afghanistan. He and his administration may have very well misread how terorist group such as Isis would fill that gap. Here they may have failed. But I don't buy your argument.

It seems this argument always fails to recognize the reason we were in Iraq in the first place and the fact this wasn't the war we should have been fighting in the first place. That and the fact that this occurred under the Bush Administration where the Vice President very likely had an agenda regardless of the intel issue.

 

[Trigger Time]

I was not happy with Obama's Policies, but I didn't want him asasinated. Since he took an oath to support and defend the Constitution and tried on many occasions he attempted to circumvent it, I did think he should have been impeached. He seemed to be a nice enough fellow, but not pro American.

Totally agree. I said as much too when he was in office. Or even now i,wouldn't wish him harm.
Another difference between us and the left. The left would be having parades in the street if something had happened to bush or Trump.
If something had happened to Obama i would not have been happy.

 

[Dddrees]

I was not happy with Obama's Policies, but I didn't want him asasinated. Since he took an oath to support and defend the Constitution and tried on many occasions he attempted to circumvent it, I did think he should have been impeached. He seemed to be a nice enough fellow, but not pro American.

Expand on circumventing it and not being Pro American please.

 

[Dddrees]

DD, something else I want to say just,so you know I don't blindly follow anyone. I already mentioned I supported Obama's change to don't ask,don't tell. But I also supported (against most republocans) his decision to open up am embassy in Cuba. Although I didn't agree with all of the policy surrounding it.
I stated those opinions here on ingo at the times. I'm not against agreeing with the other side if I believe it is right by the constitution or in America's best interest. The constitution is all I really care about supporting. Majority opinions do not matter to me especially when or if they venture off coarse from the foundation of this nation. Also,I've admitted to being wrong before and I'm not ever against changing my mind. I've done it plenty.

That's not what often comes across in your initial posts but I fully admit that is the same on my part as well. I think as you it just I have more objections than things I agree with and those feelings are much stronger and what I take issue with the most.