The 2016 General Election Thread

[jamil]

Again, he may be, but I feel it will be MUCH harder for him to get away with it like hitlary could. You make it harder to get away with and the amount goes down.
You provide media cover for it and dismissal of it when it's actively happening and the sky is the limit.

I have to agree. I don't think Trump is getting out of his Trump University law suit. He doesn't have a willing network of connected people to help him like the Clintons do.

 

[T.Lex]

You provide media cover for it and dismissal of it when it's actively happening and the sky is the limit.

See, this is where I get confused about arguments against HRC and Trump.

Trump uses the media for cover. Trump has fought any effort to correct corrupt practices. Would his presidency really be that much different than HRC's? Different color poison pills?

 

[printcraft]

See, this is where I get confused about arguments against HRC and Trump.

Trump uses the media for cover. Trump has fought any effort to correct corrupt practices. Would his presidency really be that much different than HRC's? Different color poison pills?

Yes, I believe it would. The media H A T E S Trump. It will be bush derangement syndrome 2.0. He won't be able to sneeze without CNN there with a hanky.

 

[Tombs]

See, this is where I get confused about arguments against HRC and Trump.

Trump uses the media for cover. Trump has fought any effort to correct corrupt practices. Would his presidency really be that much different than HRC's? Different color poison pills?

I'd consider murder and the overthrow of legitimate governments to be a considerably more dangerous form of corruption than a really poor university program.

 

[jamil]

I'd consider murder and the overthrow of legitimate governments to be a considerably more dangerous form of corruption than a really poor university program.

Really poor university program? Well, that's not quite on par with "extremely careless". But a colossal understatement at least.

 

[T.Lex]

Yes, I believe it would. The media H A T E S Trump. It will be bush derangement syndrome 2.0. He won't be able to sneeze without CNN there with a hanky.

See, this notion is fundamentally flawed, IMHO. They love Trump, because he delivers ratings. Individually, they love Trump because he says things that are easy to write a story around. Each time Trump delivers a speech, they hang on his every word to see how they can use his words to further their own career.

The media loves Trump and a Trump presidency guarantees higher ratings than an HRC presidency over the long term.

I will concede that HRC's progressive positions are more in line with their own politics. But, I would also say that most of them probably hold out hope that Trump will revert back to his liberal tendencies once in office. Truly, he appeals to everyone.

I'd consider murder and the overthrow of legitimate governments to be a considerably more dangerous form of corruption than a really poor university program.

While Trump has not advocated regime change, he does have a past record of trying to control governments. In fact, he brags about it when talking about negotiating "awesome" trade deals. How do you think he's controlled foreign governments with less stringent laws regarding bribery?

Oh, and he's clearly more willing to support questionable governments in furtherance of his goals and isolationism. Much like Bernie.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ws-of-the-middle-east-are-strikingly-similar/

 

[ArcadiaGP]

In PPP's latest, Republicans are slightly more unified around Trump than Democrats around Hillary.

 

[T.Lex]

In PPP's latest, Republicans are slightly more unified around Trump than Democrats around Hillary.

Hmmm... more independents siding with HRC. That's interesting. Also, more Dems appear to support Trump than Republicans support HRC. That makes sense, and is a sign of where his crossover support is coming from.

 

[printcraft]

Hmmm... more independents siding with HRC. That's interesting. Also, more Dems appear to support Trump than Republicans support HRC. That makes sense, and is a sign of where his crossover support is coming from.

Are the #nevertrumpers supporting hitlary or douchebag?

 

[Leadeye]

I really can't understand the support clintons get from manufacturing unions, they've done a lot to offshore those jobs. Hard telling what sort of "trade deal" she'll push, but that's where the really big money is.

 

[T.Lex]

Are the #nevertrumpers supporting hitlary or douchebag?

In all honesty, I don't think the #nevertrump movement is statistically significant. Numbers-wise, they are probably captured in the remaining "undecided." If I were polled on the question of who I'll vote for in the presidential race, right now, I'd say "undecided." I can't even say that I'm leaning towards one candidate or the other.

 

[BugI02]

See, this is where I get confused about arguments against HRC and Trump.

Trump uses the media for cover. Trump has fought any effort to correct corrupt practices. Would his presidency really be that much different than HRC's? Different color poison pills?

I'd be interested in some cites on this, not in a 'gotcha' sort of way. I'm not aware of him ever lobbying against bills to control corruption. Or are you speaking on a more personal level of him not correcting and/or taking advantage of corrupt practices in his personal business dealings

 

[BugI02]

I really can't understand the support clintons get from manufacturing unions, they've done a lot to offshore those jobs. Hard telling what sort of "trade deal" she'll push, but that's where the really big money is.

Whatever one she ( or at least the CGI ) is paid best to push, I expect

 

[T.Lex]

I'd be interested in some cites on this, not in a 'gotcha' sort of way. I'm not aware of him ever lobbying against bills to control corruption. Or are you speaking on a more personal level of him not correcting and/or taking advantage of corrupt practices in his personal business dealings

Well, certainly the latter. There's no shortage of veiled and not-so veiled threats and efforts to intimidate, along with passing money to politicians of all stripes for his own benefit. "They get my money and they return my calls." or something to that effect.

As to the former, first that comes to my mind is the presidential blind trust issue:
Trump's 500 businesses would pose 'unprecedented ethical dilemma' - Mar. 16, 2016

Trump's "promise" to put his businesses in the control of his kids is not a blind trust in the usual sense. And, for this conversation, does nothing to address the opportunity for corruption.

Then, there's possible ties to... well.... people:
Just What Were Donald Trump's Ties to the Mob? - POLITICO Magazine

Inside Donald Trump's Empire: Why He Didn't Run for President in 2012 - The Daily Beast

And I'm not sure of how convincing this is, but it is at least interesting:
Vladimir Putin has a plan for destroying the West, and it looks a lot like Donald Trump.

Finally, I have a certain familiarity with overseas investments and developments. This is speculation, but I don't see Trump doing what he says he's done abroad without resorting to certain practices that are illegal here, and are supposed to be illegal overseas when done by American businesses. But, I also remain convinced that all he does is license his name - so, he might personally be insulated from those issues.

ETA:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/donald-trump-azerbaijan-anar-mammadov

 

[BugI02]

I find room for the supposition that he played the cards he was dealt, much like a tour rider from the Armstrong days when it is widely believed everybody cheated and it was what one needed to do merely to be competitive. How many foreign gov'ts have you seen promise to clean up corruption just in your days on earth? Has corruption ever been cleaned up? Do you remember BBIs stories about how things really got done when he was overseas?

He may have simply done what was necessary to succeed while operating within a system he was largely powerless to change, IDK and neither does the press.

He may have found the system distasteful for all it necessity, and should he attain the bully pulpit might no longer be powerless to affect it

Its comes back to the same old Trump dilemma. I believe I'll go with the option that might shake things up and do some good as opposed to the one demonstrably amoral and for sale to the highest (foreign) bidder

If it would be a problem for Trump's children to run his businesses during his presidency, should not some fuss be made about whether Chelsea and Bill could continue to run CGI and the Clinton Foundation during a Hitlery presidency? Has it been?

Is it assumed that a person could run anything substantial of a brick and mortar nature in NYC and not have some contact with the mob

From your POLITICO link

"...including buying ostensibly overpriced concrete from a company controlled by mafia chieftains Anthony “Fat Tony” Salerno and Paul Castellano. That story eventually came out in a federal investigation, which also concluded that in a construction industry saturated with mob influence, the Trump Plaza apartment building most likely benefited from connections to racketeering."

"But with Cohn as his lawyer, Trump apparently had no reason to personally fear Salerno or Castellano—at least, not once he agreed to pay inflated concrete prices. What Trump appeared to receive in return was union peace. That meant the project would never face costly construction or delivery delays."


Again, seems like playing the hand he was dealt in order to achieve his goals. Not like he paid the mob to interfere with other's projects.

Maybe as president he'll be corruptions worst nightmare because he knows how it works, like FDR's appointment of Kennedy with the assertion that "It takes a thief to catch a thief"

Maybe I'm a hopeless optimist. We'll see

 

[T.Lex]

Maybe I'm a hopeless optimist. We'll see

What's the line... something about a cynic being a recovering optimist or something?

As for an HRC blind trust, part of my own personal issue there is that I don't care if the Dems lack integrity. Its not like I'm going to vote for HRC anyway.

Basically, I'm still struggling to find/keep a connection to the Republican party and its nominee.

 

[BugI02]

Optimist: "The glass is half full"

Pessimist: "The glass is half empty"

Engineer: "The glass is twice as large as it needs to be"

 

[printcraft]

..........Basically, I'm still struggling to find/keep a connection to the Republican party and its nominee.

That's because the party didn't pick the nominee.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

The Hispanics love him

Latest Latino Voter National Tracking Poll: Clinton 80%, Trump 13% - Latino USA

 

[printcraft]

The Hispanics love him

Latest Latino Voter National Tracking Poll: Clinton 80%, Trump 13% - Latino USA

Yeah, the 13% that are here legally.