Tariffs on Chinese goods?

[Thor]

I hope you're going a bit hyperbolic with the hanging comment. China may be a rival, but it's not an enemy.

Not so hyperbolic. Time to recognize enemies domestic and treat them as such.

 

[JettaKnight]

Every fish we buy from the ChiComs supports their domination of the SC Sea, their building reefs into military bases, their promotion of the Belt and Road plan to dominate their neighbors and eventually the planet. Paying our enemies to fulfill their plans is the path of a fool...apparently that's the common path.

Perhaps we should beat them with foreign policy, capitalist trade, and good old fashion democracy rather than imposing artificial barriers.

 

[Thor]

Perhaps we should deal with everyone not them and beat them with foreign policy, capitalist trade, and good old fashioned representative republicanism rather than paying our enemies to defeat us and rule the world.

 

[BugI02]

Perhaps we should beat them with foreign policy, capitalist trade, and good old fashion democracy rather than imposing artificial barriers.

The jury is still out on whether we can even beat our own domestic communists with such tools. Keep your powder dry

 

[Thor]

China's out brief of the G20 Summit from ChiCom foreign minister spokesman Gen Shuang; at press conference. "The Chinese side believes that the outcomes of this summit are mainly reflected in the following aspects: First, the summit has promoted the development of the world economy." " Second, the summit has upheld the multilateral trading system." "Third, the summit has improved global economic governance." "Fourth, meeting participants said that they would cooperate with one another to address climate change."

ChiCom world leadership requires support for the development of the world economy, multilateralism and world economic governance; the Belt and Road require it, Xi's ChiCom dream to rule the planet by 2030 require it. To them globalism is China at the center of the world, it's not just nationalism - or ethnocentrism - it's those on steroids. Of course they denounce any nationalism that's not ChiCom nationalism.

We shouldn't just tariff ChiCom goods we should stop all trade with them period until they do away with this toxic ChiCom Dream and choose to do business like a business not a tyrannical regime bent on enslaving other economies.

 

[T.Lex]

We shouldn't just tariff ChiCom goods we should stop all trade with them period until they do away with this toxic ChiCom Dream and choose to do business like a business not a tyrannical regime bent on enslaving other economies.

Out of curiosity, do you think we would win that? If we stop trading with them altogether, without the means to actually provide the products that would then need to be sourced elsewhere, how would that work?

 

[Thor]

Out of curiosity, do you think we would win that? If we stop trading with them altogether, without the means to actually provide the products that would then need to be sourced elsewhere, how would that work?

Would it be a painful transition? Yes. Would it be worth restarting some of those manufacturing processes? Yes. Would it be worth cutting the ChiComs out of our economy? Yes. Should we do it before we become their economic slaves?

 

[JettaKnight]

Would it be a painful transition? Yes. Would it be worth restarting some of those manufacturing processes? Yes. Would it be worth cutting the ChiComs out of our economy? Yes. Should we do it before we become their economic slaves?

Painful? I'd imagine more like a meltdown. Plus, every other country would be making hay while America drifts in to irrelevance.

[video=youtube;4RWTV1iL0bw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RWTV1iL0bw[/video]

 

[Thor]

Then by all means, we should do nothing; just accept the chains gladly because 'cheap stuff' and 'it would be unpleasant', and 'we don't want to think about that right now'. Just revel in the servitude.

Or, wait until it looks like it's too late, get pissed, go to war and make a real mess of things.

 

[Denny347]

Would it be a painful transition? Yes. Would it be worth restarting some of those manufacturing processes? Yes. Would it be worth cutting the ChiComs out of our economy? Yes. Should we do it before we become their economic slaves?

Why did manufacturing leave the US in the first place? "Become", we have been dependant on them for decades now. We CHOOSE to be dependant based on consumer choice. We want cheap food, cheap clothes, cheap electronics, cheap trinkets. Companies need to make money and thus MUST find cheap labor. All this sabre rattling going on makes it sound like China TOOK it from us when in fact we GAVE it to them. Until consumers demand MADE IN USA, and willing to pay a premium for it, this will not change.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Until MADE IN USA means premium, this will not change. I would gladly pay more to buy domestic if I thought it also meant a premium product.

 

[T.Lex]

Yeah, the answer is for America to compete, even when the playing field isn't fair. I think our history has many examples of when we do best as the underdogs.

 

[Thor]

I don't buy squat from the ChiComs. I'll pay a premium for American goods and they are ALWAYS better. If I can't find USA goods I'll buy from almost ANYONE else (preferably Taiwan). If it's ChiCom made it stays on the shelf...if I can't find anything else I'll let management know and leave.

 

[Thor]

Why did manufacturing leave the US in the first place? "Become", we have been dependant on them for decades now. We CHOOSE to be dependant based on consumer choice. We want cheap food, cheap clothes, cheap electronics, cheap trinkets. Companies need to make money and thus MUST find cheap labor. All this sabre rattling going on makes it sound like China TOOK it from us when in fact we GAVE it to them. Until consumers demand MADE IN USA, and willing to pay a premium for it, this will not change.

In retrospect I would have argued against Nixon going to China. They have weaponized capital quite well. Where loss leader is king they do quite well...their slaves cost them little.

 

[JettaKnight]

In retrospect I would have argued against Nixon going to China.

[video=youtube;X_gwnFSFzv0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_gwnFSFzv0[/video]

They have weaponized capital quite well. Where loss leader is king they do quite well...their slaves cost them little.

That can't last forever. As their labor force climbs the ladder, their own labor goes up, thus forcing the sweatshops to move to other places, like Thailand and Vietnam.

Right now, they seemed focused on world domination of resources - like in Africa. Whereas they offer aid and infrastructure to these countries, we ***** and moan about, "why are we sending money to some country I've never heard of!", thus letting their hegemony go unchecked.

 

[Denny347]

I don't buy squat from the ChiComs.

I like American made. I buy Danner Acadia boots for work and I mainly wear Origin Gi for Jiu Jitsu (The ONLY Gi made in USA, the rest are all made in Pakistan). However, my cell phone, the computer i'm typing this on, tennis shoes, silverware, the TV I watch, etc...are all made it China. I really don't know how you'd remove all Chinese products from your life.

 

[AtTheMurph]

He's looking more and more like a dem plant. Tariffs are never a good idea. They raise the cost of doing business and are just another tax on the consumer. Not to mention that they are just flat out bad for the economy. Tariffs are in no way a free market solution to anything. Trump's just too stupid to know that.

Tariffs are a great idea if they are used as an alternate funding source for the Federal government instead of using income taxes.

Income taxes are ever a good idea, are very bad for the economy and are in no way a free market solution to anything.

Tariffs are the best source of funds to do the very few things the federal government was authorized to do.

 

[Thor]

That can't last forever.

What makes you think that? They have a million people in reeducation camps, they are creating social scores for every citizen...totalitarianism means total control, no limit to authority, every aspect of public and private life. There will be no subject allowed on any ladder rung that the state does not approve. You will work in a sweatshop if the state wants you to work in a sweatshop...at the end of China Dream it will be everyone else on the planet working for their ChiCom overlords.

 

[T.Lex]

Tariffs are a great idea if they are used as an alternate funding source for the Federal government instead of using income taxes.

Income taxes are ever a good idea, are very bad for the economy and are in no way a free market solution to anything.

Tariffs are the best source of funds to do the very few things the federal government was authorized to do.

I'm curious - because I truly don't know the answer to this - has that ever worked?

That is, has a nation of any meaningful size been able to suffice on tariffs alone? I haven't spent much time reflecting on it, but it seems to me that it basically becomes a sales tax, and only on imported products.

It would encourage domestic production, because those goods would be cheaper. But, as that model expands to more and more products, the federal government receives less and less revenue, because the need for imports is reduced.

At a policy level, I'm not sure I see how that would work out. But again, I've only really thought about since reading your post.

 

[HoughMade]

Taxes are taxes. Tariffs are a consumption tax, but a particularly well hidden one. Never vote for or support the raising of your own taxes.