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Tariffs on Chinese goods?
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Both. A standing joke in international management is that you can only sell the ChiComs one of anything, after that they'll start making it and selling it back to you for less. With software they just make a billion copies of what they buy and rebrand it.
I don't know, but would guess both.
Oof.
Trump is building a Trump branded Trump real estate park in Indonesia with a Trump-partner Indonesian dude. Earlier in May, the developer contracted with a Chinese state-owned construction company to do the construction of the Trump branded property.
Turns out, the company got a $500M loan from the Chinese government for the work. That is estimated to be about half the project total.
Linkifcations:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-has-not-signed-china-loan-deal-idUSKCN1IH1Y8
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/china-contributing-500-million-trump-linked-project-indonesia/
Trump Indonesia project is latest stop on China?s Belt and Road | South China Morning Post
Trump companies will be involved in managing the project.
Seems like a total coincidence.
Trump is building a Trump branded Trump real estate park in Indonesia with a Trump-partner Indonesian dude. Earlier in May, the developer contracted with a Chinese state-owned construction company to do the construction of the Trump branded property.
Turns out, the company got a $500M loan from the Chinese government for the work. That is estimated to be about half the project total.
Linkifcations:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-has-not-signed-china-loan-deal-idUSKCN1IH1Y8
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/china-contributing-500-million-trump-linked-project-indonesia/
Trump Indonesia project is latest stop on China?s Belt and Road | South China Morning Post
Trump companies will be involved in managing the project.
Seems like a total coincidence.
I have to admit, this caught me off guard.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44324565
I thought we'd exempted our friends from the tariffs. I guess we'd only promised to talk about it. But, the talks haven't gone so well, so we're going to impose the tariffs.
Art of the Deal.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44324565
I thought we'd exempted our friends from the tariffs. I guess we'd only promised to talk about it. But, the talks haven't gone so well, so we're going to impose the tariffs.
Art of the Deal.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-sl...fs-on-canada-mexico-european-union-1527774283
U.S. Tariffs Prompt Anger, Retaliation From Trade Allies
Not new. Should exemptions to tackle the problem be renewed if no interest is shown in substantive action?
IMO he's got this one correct
Sherrod Brown gets it
U.S. Tariffs Prompt Anger, Retaliation From Trade Allies
Not new. Should exemptions to tackle the problem be renewed if no interest is shown in substantive action?
IMO he's got this one correct
Sherrod Brown gets it
I don't know yet.
I'd prefer it to be focused on China, as I think they are the real problem. Rather than starting with our allies, IMHO we should wait and see if targeting China gets us closer to our goal. If our allies do not get in line, then move to them.
If it needs a global response, then alienating our friends around the globe seems like a bad idea.
I'd prefer it to be focused on China, as I think they are the real problem. Rather than starting with our allies, IMHO we should wait and see if targeting China gets us closer to our goal. If our allies do not get in line, then move to them.
If it needs a global response, then alienating our friends around the globe seems like a bad idea.
It would seem quite possible that, with the Belt and Road initiative putting up financial support that China would want a representative share of Chinese companies to participate in construction. That is not an unusual feature for any country financing projects on foreign soil
You are correct that Trump companies involvement in the project could be coincidental and are not required for such an arrangement to take place
Have you investigated some (or any) other Belt and Road projects to see if similar arrangements were made to make sure Chinese companies participate in Chinese largesse? Or are we only interested in the ones that allow dark innuendo about Trump
Until you can report some unique trait about the particular deal you focus on, you have no evidence that it is not coincidence
If they import Chinese steel for value added export to the US while protecting their own industries through tariffs and taxes, are they really our friends? do you think that the EU had no barriers to US imports prior to this? Do you think the trade surpluses they all run with us are only driven by superior products?
Did you know anything when you happily intimated that Trump might be benefiting financially from the Indonesia deal? Because I'm perfectly willing to limit all things Trump to what is known - but it's going to make for some pretty dull news days unless Mueller throws down or Trump blanket declassifies
Teal Questions, Questions, Questions.
You know they made Socrates kill himself don't you?
OTOH: Welcome to Capitalism 201. Tariffs invite those affected to learn ways to generate income in alternate markets. The Late, Great, United State is looming on the lips of those who never liked our bullying.
You know they made Socrates kill himself don't you?
OTOH: Welcome to Capitalism 201. Tariffs invite those affected to learn ways to generate income in alternate markets. The Late, Great, United State is looming on the lips of those who never liked our bullying.
Wow. Teal-spamming Friday! 
However, it is not unusual for Chinese firms to require contract go to Chinese state-owned companies.
Trump's company's involvement in the project isn't coincidental. It is a project of a company that he is still involved with, as POTUS.
The timing might be coincidental, so as to coincide with the loosening of tariffs on Chinese goods. (We now know our allies are being targeted, too.)
I'm interested in 2 kinds of projects: ones that clients or potential clients might like and those that benefit both the US POTUS and communists.
The timing of the financing and the changes to the tariffs could be coincidence. Purplish coincidence.
And no - I don't think you can limit yourself to what you KNOW about Trump. You've often proven that you're willing to give him the benefit of any doubt, even including speculating on his beneficence.
Well, couple things. Most often (and I have a bit of professional experience in this area) it is the host country that insists on contract to go to local companies.
However, it is not unusual for Chinese firms to require contract go to Chinese state-owned companies.
Wait. Let's be clear.
Trump's company's involvement in the project isn't coincidental. It is a project of a company that he is still involved with, as POTUS.
The timing might be coincidental, so as to coincide with the loosening of tariffs on Chinese goods. (We now know our allies are being targeted, too.)
Yes. I have some familiarity, and Chinese projects most often benefit Chinese companies and the state.
I'm interested in 2 kinds of projects: ones that clients or potential clients might like and those that benefit both the US POTUS and communists.
It is not a coincidence that Trump is involved with the Chinese government.
The timing of the financing and the changes to the tariffs could be coincidence. Purplish coincidence.
Are our relationships one-dimensional? That's a bad way to look at the world.
Yes. We know Trump will make money on the successful development. And so will China.
And no - I don't think you can limit yourself to what you KNOW about Trump. You've often proven that you're willing to give him the benefit of any doubt, even including speculating on his beneficence.
Wow. Teal-spamming Friday!
Well, couple things. Most often (and I have a bit of professional experience in this area) it is the host country that insists on contract to go to local companies.
However, it is not unusual for Chinese firms to require contract go to Chinese state-owned companies.
[So, you're saying the Chinese construction company involvement is not unusual. What about the Chinese bank involvement if it really is part of Belt and Road (I thought that was more trade infrastructure like ports and rail). If the involvement of either or both is not unusual then you have proven my point]
Wait. Let's be clear.
Trump's company's involvement in the project isn't coincidental. It is a project of a company that he is still involved with, as POTUS.
[Oh really. It is my understanding that Trump will not own the properties, only brand them. Trump companies will not even be involved in the management of them, I believe. In no way is a Trump company necessary/crucial to this deal. It could just as well be a Hilton. Any income Trump derives is from branding/licensing fees, which I believe they get whether the project succeeds financially right up until the close or rebrand. Thus the presence of a Trump company is incidental (a root of co-incidental) to the deal itself. That was what I was speaking to. Very different from a Trump company leading the deal and/or arranging the financing]
The timing might be coincidental, so as to coincide with the loosening of tariffs on Chinese goods. (We now know our allies are being targeted, too.)
[Better, sticking to only claiming things that you can know and acknowledging the limits of such information. Only Kut can divine inner motives with his special powers
Yes. I have some familiarity, and Chinese projects most often benefit Chinese companies and the state.
[Still seems to be making my case]
I'm interested in 2 kinds of projects: ones that clients or potential clients might like and those that benefit both the US POTUS and communists.
[Looking forward to your exposé on US Treasuries as safe haven for sovereign wealth funds]
It is not a coincidence that Trump is involved with the Chinese government.
[Or any other government, at any time he wishes]
The timing of the financing and the changes to the tariffs could be coincidence. Purplish coincidence.
[From your own Reuters cite: "In a separate text message, M. Budi Rustanto, vice president director at subsidiary PT MNC Land, said the company had appointed MCC as a contractor and denied any loan deal.MNC Land, the unit responsible for developing the 3,000 hectare project in West Java, signed a framework construction agreement with MCC in June 2016 to build a theme park.
The Trump Organization in 2015 struck a deal to manage a luxury resort complex and villas, as well as a golf course at the site. The project also includes other hotels, residential areas and retail centers, as well as a national park." Not even President yet.Didn't announce tariffs until March 1, 2018 I believe. Seems sinister to me. What amount of temporal seperation is required to be above suspicion. the principals in Uranium One want to get their timeline straight]
Are our relationships one-dimensional? That's a bad way to look at the world.
[If they look at us primarily as a way to cushion their own economy by running surpluses, and had to be badgered into pretending to pay their fair share of security expenses, how many dimensions do you think they are looking at us in. And I would like you to answer my previous question of whether you think they run trade surpluses with us purely because of superior products and no greater barriers to EU markets exist for US goods than US barriers for EU goods. Brussels was a fountainhead of pointless, arbitrary and unnecessary standards on just about everything]
Yes. We know Trump will make money on the successful development. And so will China.
And no - I don't think you can limit yourself to what you KNOW about Trump. You've often proven that you're willing to give him the benefit of any doubt, even including speculating on his beneficence.
I didn't say only me. The implication was it would be a global change (in the programmer sense) The whole point is to get the people trying to cast shade on Trump to do so as well. i can roll with that, can you?
ETA: My original statement
So, other countries place a tax on what we sell to them, and "we" are the bad guys cause we say we might do the same?
I for one do not wish to give money to the .gov for the privilege of purchasing an item. They get enough of my money already.
I hate when you/anyone writes inside the quotes. It becomes too hard to follow. So I'll just respond to this point - to the extent I understand it.
Limiting INGO to what people know is a futile and boring effort. And the last resort of someone grasping at straws to support a position.
I know that Trump, while POTUS, will profit from the Indonesian Trump development site(s). I know that the timing of getting the Chinese investment coincided with his public softening of his stance on the Chinese tariff. Meanwhile, Trump's personal investments remain mostly an unreadable cipher that we're just supposed to trust him to put country before greed.
(If you take the time to research it, make sure you follow the timeline of this story. There were some conflicting early reports that were ultimately resolved. That's why there are discrepancies in the links.)
What do YOU know of Trump's character that makes you think he would US interests ahead of personal profit?
This looks like a pretty solid, single-site breakdown.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...nesian-partner-thought-this-would-be-more-fun
It is obviously a complicated transaction, but it is equally obvious that money is fungible. That China is financing X part of the development only means that someone else needs to do Y. But, it appears to be all one development.
The framework is not all that different than some public-private partnerships Carmel has done.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...nesian-partner-thought-this-would-be-more-fun
It is obviously a complicated transaction, but it is equally obvious that money is fungible. That China is financing X part of the development only means that someone else needs to do Y. But, it appears to be all one development.
The framework is not all that different than some public-private partnerships Carmel has done.
Well. The last attack on our market by China caused 19 steel mills to go bankrupt.
Then, China decided to stop sending all it's steel here.
and the cost of steel skyrocketed.
The surviving steel mills loved the price going up.
The consumer didn't.
1] As a courtesy, and since your points were well separated lending themselves to the technique, I will explore an alternate technique. Please understand I do not guarantee this level of effort going forward. If you are so frequently confused, you could try limiting posts to 2 or 3 ideas instead of 10 or try being less wrong
2] If you read my posts more carefully, you'll see that was exactly my prediction. I reiterate that you lack Kut's special powers so are not allowed to claim knowledge of inferred intent. Good to know desiring to deal in actual facts rather than supposition and innuendo is the last gasp defense of an untenable position. When did CNN hire you?
3] What you don't know: A Trump company will profit from the Indonesia deal. The extent of Trump's personal win is unknown (as you admit when admitting how tangled his investments are) and moreover, that deal was signed in 2015. Profitting from that deal likely has either already occurred or will occur upon opening. You don't know whether Trump's brand will still be considered an asset when the development opens, or indeed whether toxicity brought to the brand by #resistance will result in rebranding prior to the opening. So basically, I see it as you kvetching that he might get paid an indeterminate amount at an indeterminate future date while failing to acknowledge that he might not get paid at all. Then you postulate that someone as greedy and grasping as you seem to wish to make him out to be would sell the Chinese something they supposedly desperately wanted for the bargain price of 'future considerations'. And you account for the arrangement including the Chinese construction entity prior to his election as another coincidence rather than the principals laying the necessary groundwork for Chinese investment and stipulate quid pro quo. House of cards. Your argument suffers from always choosing the most unfavorable interpretation to Trump at every inflection point. We get that you don't like him, what else you got?]
4] Everything he's done since being sworn in and everything he has endured to got there
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