Surrounded by cops today

[PatriotPride]

So, someone called in a burglary, you had a gun and were right outside the rear of the building where the burglary supposedly occurred, you showed them a carry permit (which doesn't mean you didn't rob anyone, it just means you have a carry permit), they unloaded your firearm, then ran you and gave all your stuff back.

So what?


...and I didn't read any farther than the first post, as I'm sure this descended quickly into a cop bashathon by a bunch of internet tough guys.

I WAS curious as to how many times the "cop-bashing" card was going to be played tonight. Thanks for adding another occurence.

You're missing the point. The actions of the LEOs were unlawful and downright unprofessional. Maybe YOU, if you were not a LEO, would be content to be treated as the OP was, but I as a free man am not. I can assure you if an officer I had an interaction with decided to empty my mags, we would be having words, and I WOULD be personally following up at the station with his/her superior(s).

I would suggest you read the posts before making accusations of "cop bashathons by internet tough guys". You're not doing yourself any favors.

 

[printcraft]

I haven't read this whole thread yet, but the solution seems fairly obvious:

Open carry.

You WANT to make him a target and get his gun snatched by a thug?!?

 

[tnek]

WOW, thats all you got out of that.

You didnt awnser the question.

 

[gohard43]

Not sure what kind of robber would be standing on a ladder messing with outside light fixtures in the middle of the afternoon.....obviously a very dangerous one. duh.

 

[tnek]

Like I said. They were just making sure. SOME people can create fraud paperwork, ID, documentation.....
They were called out for a robbery in process. It would have looked pretty bad if they show up, talk to the guy, look at HIS so called documentation. And then don't check it out, just went by his "word". Then the cops leave. 20 minutes later, the place is robbed.

That would have really sucked, ya know?

Gotta disagree. I find that on all sides people will attempt to stretch the reasons to suit thier camp. Cops should have idled back some once ID and permit was produced. Cops are always saying they have to think on their feet and this time they didnt or wanted to jack with someone. If it were me I would have been OK with producing ID, would have never let them know I was holding and if I had the fact they were adam henries about unloading mags would put me in one track mode of raising all the cain I could with them thru proper chanels.

 

[ATM]

You WANT to make him a target and get his gun snatched by a thug?!?

Well, that would be quicker and more efficient than having ten cops do it.

 

[tnek]

So, someone called in a burglary, you had a gun and were right outside the rear of the building where the burglary supposedly occurred, you showed them a carry permit (which doesn't mean you didn't rob anyone, it just means you have a carry permit), they unloaded your firearm, then ran you and gave all your stuff back.

So what?


...and I didn't read any farther than the first post, as I'm sure this descended quickly into a cop bashathon by a bunch of internet tough guys.

I dont think there are a bunch of internet tough guys here. Those jobs seem to be filled by guys who think a gun most of them cant clean and a badge makes them god.

 

[printcraft]

Well, that would be quicker and more efficient than having ten cops do it.

Agreed, cuts down on all that manpower expense! Impotent tip!

 

[ARdysfunction]

15 pages in 6 hours... Nice!

 

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

Joe, you can refuse to tell an Officer you are not carrying and let him just 'find' out???


I was under the impression that you must answer honestly if you are carrying.

 

[Joe Williams]

Joe, you can refuse to tell an Officer you are not carrying and let him just 'find' out???


I was under the impression that you must answer honestly if you are carrying.

You don't have to volunteer any information.

Nor, for that matter, do you have to answer his/her questions at all. We have no duty to inform in Indiana.

 

[PatriotPride]

You don't have to volunteer any information.

Nor, for that matter, do you have to answer his/her questions at all. We have no duty to inform in Indiana.

AND we also have the 5th---The right to remain silent Act like a feminine hygiene product and see how far that gets you.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I didnt read through all 10,000 pages of this thread, but I personaly wouldnt have told the cop jack crap! i dont answer cops questions. DONT TALK TO COPS!!!! when will people get it? I hope you are filing a formal complaint and you got the officers names?

next time a cop ask you a question tell him you arent answering his questions, and then ask if you being detained. wait for him to beat his chest most likely, and then his buddies to do the same, and just keep your mouth shut. oh did I mention to click on the digital recorder you keep in your pocket?? you do keep a digital recorder in your pocket right? I do. and another in my car.

 

[Gabriel]

You're missing the point. The actions of the LEOs were unlawful and downright unprofessional. Maybe YOU, if you were not a LEO, would be content to be treated as the OP was, but I as a free man am not. I can assure you if an officer I had an interaction with decided to empty my mags, we would be having words, and I WOULD be personally following up at the station with his/her superior(s).

I would suggest you read the posts before making accusations of "cop bashathons by internet tough guys". You're not doing yourself any favors.

I must have missed the part where the police did something wrong. As stated above, he was at the scene of a possible burglary with a firearm. The mere fact that he has a permit means absolutely nothing. Once he was run and the situation was straightened out, his sidearm was returned (left for him to retrieve). You can all whine about his rights being violated, but guess what, they weren't.

 

[cordex]

A number of things come to mind as I read this.

First off, as always there are more than one side to every story. We're hearing only one perspective for this particular incident. While the impression given is that the police went too far, we'd probably get the same kind of impression if we spoke to 90% of the people in prison today, and most would be lying.

In the majority of the actions that police take, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. Of course there are a few bad ones out there, and certainly good cops will make bad decisions from time to time. By and large though, police have a hard job and do it about as well as the rest of us do our jobs.

I don't think the cops who hassled the OP were evil, nor were they doing something intentionally wrong. Even so, their actions served less to protect anyone and more to irritate someone who - if handled differently - could otherwise have been a staunch supporter. Our society as a whole is steadily moving towards nerfing every possible aspect of our lives. One piece of this process is that police are increasingly seeking to moderate every possible threat they think they can control - no matter what the cost in alienated citizens. In order to make themselves feel more safe, many police will automatically react to anyone with a gun as though they were dealing with a dangerous felon (which, on rare occasion, they are). Of course, this assumes (preposterously) that the truly dangerous people will admit to being armed in the first place and subsequently display a valid license. Worse, when a good person reports being poorly treated by an officer, fellow cops tend to rush to dismiss the instance and anyone who feels that any police action was inappropriate as "cop bashing" despite not knowing any more of the story than anyone else in the discussion. The impression thus given is that police have a thin skin and will stand up for each other even when they are in the wrong.

Whether or not the police went too far here, I can't say. While I'd like to say that I would have handled it better, I'm not a cop and don't know how I would have reacted in their shoes with the information they had at the time. The one thing I do believe is that no matter what actions they had to take in order to investigate the initial call and keep safe, they should have at least attempted to end the contact with the OP on a positive note. As was previously mentioned, a quick apology and returning the weapon to the freshly checked-out individual without dumping the rounds from the magazine seems like a pretty minimal step in that direction. As it was, the last thing the officers seemed to be telling him was "We've checked you out every which way we're allowed to, but you know what? We still don't trust you, and we don't like that you carry a gun. We're going to do everything we can get away with to demonstrate how little we trust you." That's just not good customer service. Unless the OP is leaving out a significant element to the story, he did not deserve that kind of message.

I've only been carrying for about a decade but even I remember years ago being involved in a couple of traffic stops (once as a passenger and once as a driver) during which upon learning I was armed the officer said a variant of: "You leave yours alone and I'll leave mine alone." Those cops were treating me not like an immediate threat who they would prefer to disarm and cuff, but with a level of respect that made me want to return the favor. They were saying in essence: "You are one of the people we're trying to protect. We're cool with you carrying a gun, if you choose to. As long as you don't do anything stupid, we're going to treat you cordially and professionally without trying to make you feel like you are somehow a bad person for holstering up this morning. This kind of attitude seems less and less accepted amongst police. As a result of this decline, more and more people who carry guns (including myself) have one or more negative stories about being treated like a criminal by police simply because we were armed. Sadly, the dismissive and hostile approach that many police take upon encountering such a story serves only to further cement negative impressions.

To those who are armchair quarterbacking the OP's failure to notify everyone in the neighborhood that he'd be doing some work on the building, how do you propose to deal with the fact that tenants' employees and managers will come and go throughout the day on unpredictable schedules and may not think to pass along the notice? Should he utilize neon signs and pop in every 15 minutes or so just to update anyone new?

I strongly agree with the idea that unless directly specified in the contract, prior notification of tenants of such repairs is the responsibility of the building owner, not the workers. If the OP had any reason to suspect this would happen, I'm sure he would have ensured the tenants were notified in advance, but there was no reason for him to assume it would turn out the way it did.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I must have missed the part where the police did something wrong. As stated above, he was at the scene of a possible burglary with a firearm. The mere fact that he has a permit means absolutely nothing. Once he was run and the situation was straightened out, his sidearm was returned (left for him to retrieve). You can all whine about his rights being violated, but guess what, they weren't.

maybe i would feel safer if the cop took off his weapon. we all know that wont happen, but why should I surrender ONE of mine? The cop thinks he is safe because he thinks im unarmed but he doesnt know what other gun im carrying that he dont see and didnt ask about. Also he doesnt know how quickly i can take his from him (if i was a criminal). a properly trained person doesnt need any other weapon than his hands and feet to kill.

even with a potential criminal, as long as the gun is in the holster then they are in no more danger than they would be walking down the street.
they have guns too and should know how to take care of it if the guy pulls a weapon they have been told about. i wont tell them nothing. not because i dont respect them, but because i dont have to tell them, and also because i wanna make sure i protect my own rights because i wont be relying on cops or anyone else to do that for me, no thanks.

dont risk being charged with anything. just dont speak. if asked if you have a weapon, simply answer i do not wish to answer any questions. what do you have to lose if your gonna be treated like a criminal for being honest then you might as well stick up for your rights and be treated the same but get satisfaction from knowing you did the right thing. are maybe you will get a smart cop that realizes you know your sh** and they will simply leave you alone. even if they put cuffs on you, dont say a damn thing people. So many people get arrested because of their big mouths when they would have went free. you DO NOT have to answer any questions or even give anything except your LTCH unless your being pulled over in a car.

 

[ATM]

*How it could have gone down*


"Hey there, we got a report of a possible robbery."

"Really? I haven't seen anyone else back here, officer."

"Thanks. You be careful fixing that light."


Honestly, I'm not sure why it went down any differently than that.

 

[E5RANGER375]

*How it could have gone down*


"Hey there, we got a report of a possible robbery."

"Really? I haven't seen anyone else back here, officer."

"Thanks. You be careful fixing that light."


Honestly, I'm not sure why it went down any differently than that.

I totaly agree!!! when i see a cop i wonder what possible harrassment could be coming my way. the bad ones have ruined it for the good ones. i just cant take the chance. I must give them all the silent treament unless i know them then we can be friends

 

[serpicostraight]

I must have missed the part where the police did something wrong. As stated above, he was at the scene of a possible burglary with a firearm. The mere fact that he has a permit means absolutely nothing. Once he was run and the situation was straightened out, his sidearm was returned (left for him to retrieve). You can all whine about his rights being violated, but guess what, they weren't.

not all of us are ready to surrender our rights that our ancestors fought and died for. if you chose to be a subject and roll over thats fine but dont expect everybody to be as subserviant as you are.

 

[bambek]

I understand the situations LEOs face and I also offer respect to their positions.....however, once that respect has been lost (like it would be to the officer(s) in this case) it is VERY difficult to re-establish. Respect has to be earned. Once had and lost, there is a LONG re-building process. Which is the reason I would have to inform their bosses of this mess WE were involved in. Some people (yes even those in authority) think you can make mistakes, act wrongly afterward, because of pride, and everything should be ok. It isn't! The higher ups in the PD need to get their subjects to understand this. Otherwise there will be a time when no one will offer respect to them anymore without knowing them personally. Which of course is impossible. They should really appreciate us law abiders and even admit it if they have acted wrong. There may come a day when they need us! Just my 3 cents. (Inflation)