State Police Getting Rid of Glock 21s?

[copo]

and with Sig releasing the new P227 double stacked .45 I see them going to those.

 

[STEEL CORE]

Funny an agency would have any alleged Glock problems and a sister agency (insert agency here) uses Glock (insert model here) for years and has no major problems.

 

[LANShark42]

Hang on a sec... I thought Glocks were God's gift to the gun world and were incapable of fault. Oh, the humanity...

 

[cosermann]

This is a training issue. Manually strip the magazine every time and you'll never have the problem in any gun, regardless of the reason they are sticking. This has the added bonus of you being able to get that dropping magazine out of your line of travel and doesn't slow doesn't measurably slow the reload as your support hand is coming from the gun to your belt line regardless.

^^^^ Bingo.

 

[miguel]

Damn, hopefully they hit the market. Would love to get a G21 with Indiana markings!

 

[f'nstar]

Heven forbid anyone bad mouth glock on this site. If you had a gun with issues would you want it fixed? If you carried the gun everyday wouldn't you want it to function as advertised. Would you trust your life to a gun that may not work when you need it to.

 

[in625shooter]

This is a training issue. Manually strip the magazine every time and you'll never have the problem in any gun, regardless of the reason they are sticking. This has the added bonus of you being able to get that dropping magazine out of your line of travel and doesn't slow doesn't measurably slow the reload as your support hand is coming from the gun to your belt line regardless.

I've been to a lot of instructor schools on the Federal side with all the alphabet agency firearms instructors. On emergency reloads Most departments "TRAIN" to not have to use their spare hand ripping the mag out of the firearm. The off hand/arm is working on retrieving the new magazine while your strong hand is doing what it needs to do.

That is how most agencies are traning the emergency reload. Doing more than one thing at once!

 

[HICKMAN]

Heven forbid anyone bad mouth glock on this site. If you had a gun with issues would you want it fixed? If you carried the gun everyday wouldn't you want it to function as advertised. Would you trust your life to a gun that may not work when you need it to.

Heaven forbid... indeed.

 

[f'nstar]

Heaven forbid... indeed.

Haha

 

[NetPIMP]

... a gun that may not work when you need it to.

Arguably, this describes every gun ever made...

Otherwise, why do we train for malfunctions of varying kinds? If you trust your gun to work all the time every time, then it is a complete waste to learn how to identify and clear problems & malfunctions...

Queue all the "but my Glock/Sig/1911/whatever has run flawlessly - never a hiccup!" retorts, right? Yeah, but the idea that everyone else that has the exact same gun as you never had any issues ever is dubious. Thousands of rounds downrange without a single failure ever is the exception, not the norm.

Poop happens.

Problems happen, malfunctions happen - and if you're someone who drives your gun a lot, ostensibly as an operator, or someone who trains heavily, your percentage likelihood of running into multiple instances of those issues goes up.

You do everything in your power to set yourself up for success - and a big part of that is learning how to mitigate when things go wrong. Lives are on the line, right?

Whether AD Marc's exact answer is right or wrong, I'm not smart enough to discern - but what I do agree with is the idea that you have to accept that there will be problems and TRAIN to deal with them quickly and efficiently.

Look, maybe the threshold of acceptable failure was reached in this case - I don't know. What I do know is this blind "faith in my weapon" thing seems misplaced.

All that said - if it's the case the Glock didn't address an issue, I'm not surprised. They're always so aloof.

 

[f'nstar]

Ok so if you have a gun plagued with problems and a history of problem your solution is to train for it or find a replacement for it. Just because I train for malfunctions doesn't mean I would keep a gun that had constant malfunctions.

 

[STEEL CORE]

Just saying..................many of Indiana Sheriffs departments use Glocks, many local agencies do to such as IMPD. Troopers/Deputies/Officers, the ratio of working sytems vs non working systems should favor the Glock system. But what the hey, only the best for any brother officer out there I say.

 

[NetPIMP]

Ok so if you have a gun plagued with problems and a history of problem your solution is to train for it or find a replacement for it. Just because I train for malfunctions doesn't mean I would keep a gun that had constant malfunctions.

Like I said:

... this is probably a case where the rate of failures or malfunctions exceeded some acceptable threshold ...

i.e. It sounds like these are not isolated incidents or result of flawed training or whatever.

I just take exception to the "I trust my gun with my life" idea that it's infallible because it's a Glock/Sig/1911/Whatever vs some other brand/model.

The gun - whatever kind/caliber it is - won't get you out of trouble, you will.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[Hookeye]

I bet it probably has more to do with the number of AD's.
Don't ISP personnel of a certain rank carry a "firearms rules card" or similar to grill underlings due to the number of AD's had with their Glocks? That might have been 3 or 4 yrs ago.
Little cards probably didn't help so the next political/legal move to look like they can solve a problem is to just switch brands.
Calling it a mag issue instead of an AD issue (who knows what lawsuits may be pending) sure helps

 

[Gluemanz28]

A lot of LE agencies use reloads. These reloads could be the issues of the FTF or FTE. I was at a reloading class yesterday and there was a guy there that had a round that was commercially reloaded by a shooting range that had the primer sticking up beyond the case. With ammo being hard to come by LE Departments are like the rest of us. They are getting ammo wherever they can.

 

[AD Marc]

I've been to a lot of instructor schools on the Federal side with all the alphabet agency firearms instructors. On emergency reloads Most departments "TRAIN" to not have to use their spare hand ripping the mag out of the firearm. The off hand/arm is working on retrieving the new magazine while your strong hand is doing what it needs to do.

That is how most agencies are traning the emergency reload. Doing more than one thing at once!

I think it's an oversight in training...though it used to be pretty standard when Glocks only came with non drop free mags. Magazines, even ones that normally drop free, stick for all sorts of reasons. Dirt, odd shooting positions, wearing gloves or just having big hands on a smaller gun can impede magazines from dropping free. People with smaller hands frequently need to use the off hand thumb on the magazine release to maintain a full firing grip. When taught to reorient the gun in their hand to accomplish this, other than breaking the firing grip, they often orient the gun in a way where the magazine well is no longer down. Then there's the issue of an unrecognized type 3 malfunction. If your support hand is already moving from the gun to your belt line, why not strip the magazine and bring it out of your path of travel? That's what I'm talking about, doing more than one thing at once.

 

[phylodog]

I reload faster when relying on gravity to strip the magazine for me. If gravity fails me I'm easily capable of stripping the mag with a loaded mag in my hand. I can either grip it between my pinky and ring finger or use the back corner of the fresh mag to pull it out (this works well). I don't train to strip the mag, in the 16 years I've been shooting Glock .40 cal pistols I've had a handful of instances where the mag failed to drop free. All but one were cleared it with a shake of my gun hand.

 

[MikeDVB]

I've trained to hold the new magazine between a couple of fingers and using a couple of other fingers to rip out the mag if I need to - if it drops free, great, no need... If it doesn't - I'm prepared for it and have practiced it enough times to have muscle memory.

Whether or not the magazine usually drops free on it's own, it's best to practice for the event when it doesn't or you're going to end up trying to jam a loaded magazine into the bottom of an empty, then you have to stop and see what's wrong, then figure out how to correct it - by then you may be dead.

 

[j706]

I have not read all the post's due to limited time but I do wonder how ISP has so many problems with Glock products. No one else seems to. I semi annually service around 50 Glocks. Some of those see some serious usage. It is very rare to have any problems out of them at all. Strange IMO.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I have not read all the post's due to limited time but I do wonder how ISP has so many problems with Glock products. No one else seems to.

IMPD did. Our 3rd gen Glock 22's had multiple failures when you attached a light to the rail. I would have a FTE about 1 round in 3 magazines.

Glock replaced our mags and said the stiffer springs would fix it. It didn't. My Glock still hung up about 1 round in every 3 magazines.

It ran, and continues to run 100%, without a light on the rail (I bought it back) but no way would I trust it with the light on it.