State Capitol Rally

[BloodEclipse]

Wow. I finally got through this thread.
Before I comment on it though I feel this thread has become cumbersome.
I would like to suggest that a new thread gets started and have it limited to a clearing house of ideas. From that, other threads could come from it and we (those willing to help) could begin to put together some structure.
I would also like for the mods to keep an eye on the threads and remove posts which have nothing to contribute.
If you don't like someone else's idea use some tact in saying it or better yet express your own idea that you deem better.

I would say to those who are opposed to forming some kind event, that you at least do something. We have seen many citizens or subjects of other nations lose their right of personal protection. We know the game of divide and conquer, employed by the governments against gun owners.
If we can't come together as a group of gun owners to show support for our rights, do we even deserve them?
What risks were taken to get them in the first place?
How hard has those who came before us fought to keep them?
How will our children remember us and what we stood for or were afraid to stand for?

bwframe instead of trying to derail something why not try to make it better?
I'm not convinced myself that this has to be a big Rally. If it was that would be awesome. I think that from the disorder going on over at RTKBA that it won't be likely.

David I disagree that a small group cannot have an impact. With proper planning even a couple of people can get positive media coverage. For example your six degrees analogy. It's who you know and what friendly contacts you make.

I do agree that a series of events is also a good thing. We could setup info booths at fairs and festivals. We could organize shoots and welcome the public.

If Fenway is opposed to being associated with this, another site would need to be created so people recruited at the fairs, festivals, shoots and other forms of media (fliers) would have a central place to stay in touch for events.

Lets have your thoughts and ideas on this here and then we can create another thread and keep this moving forward.
SavageEagle don't give up hope
Just don't go borrowing any from Obama.

 

[4sarge]

I would also like for the mods to keep an eye on the threads and remove posts which have nothing to contribute.
If you don't like someone else's idea use some tact in saying it or better yet express your own idea that you deem better.

I would say to those who are opposed to forming some kind event, that you at least do something. We have seen many citizens or subjects of other nations lose their right of personal protection. We know the game of divide and conquer, employed by the governments against gun owners.
If we can't come together as a group of gun owners to show support for our rights, do we even deserve them?
What risks were taken to get them in the first place?
How hard has those who came before us fought to keep them?
How will our children remember us and what we stood for or were afraid to stand for?

bwframe instead of trying to derail something why not try to make it better?
I'm not convinced myself that this has to be a big Rally. If it was that would be awesome. I think that from the disorder going on over at RTKBA that it won't be likely.

David I disagree that a small group cannot have an impact. With proper planning even a couple of people can get positive media coverage. For example your six degrees analogy. It's who you know and what friendly contacts you make.

I do agree that a series of events is also a good thing. We could setup info booths at fairs and festivals. We could organize shoots and welcome the public.

If Fenway is opposed to being associated with this, another site would need to be created so people recruited at the fairs, festivals, shoots and other forms of media (fliers) would have a central place to stay in touch for events.

Lets have your thoughts and ideas on this here and then we can create another thread and keep this moving forward.
SavageEagle don't give up hope
Just don't go borrowing any from Obama.

repped

 

[dburkhead]

Ok, because I'm tired and sick of staring at computers tonight I will reply to this.

I'm sorry, kinda, that this offended you. I didnt mean to offend you as that was not my intention. BUT. If it does offend you and for the above stated reason, I'm a bit confused.

First, to derail this or any effort to strengthen our Constitution that doesn't involve violence when it's not necessary, well, what other possible reason could there be besides fear? Honestly. I have no ill will against those who disagree with me, or my ideas, just those who openly attack me for them. Of course to go behind my back and slam me is worse, but offended is offended.

First off, I'm not trying to "derail" anything, so please stop with that straw man.

And just because someone has the intent to "strengthen our Constitution" does not mean that that will be the effect. The way you are heading now looks very much like you are heading that way. Warning about that possibility is not an indicator of fear. It's not fear that causes the old hunter to say "don't go into the tiger's den without being fully prepared to deal with a live tiger at close quarters" it's wisdom (NB: I'm not claiming any great wisdom here, just a bit of experience gleaned by watching how these things can go wrong as well as how they can go right).

I'm not trying to derail you, or even to dissuade you. I'm suggesting you prepare to meet the tiger.

Here's another Washington example. If someone told Washington "General Gates has five times our artillery" Do you think that Washington responded with "Why are you trying to derail the Revolution" or do you think maybe he did a "Rah! Rah! Let's win one for the Gipper!" speech? I doubt it. Most likely he looked for ways to neutralize the artillery, to add to his own artillery, or to otherwise incorporate that information into his plan and deal with it.

 

[dburkhead]

David I disagree that a small group cannot have an impact. With proper planning even a couple of people can get positive media coverage. For example your six degrees analogy. It's who you know and what friendly contacts you make.

"With proper planning." Planning. Organization. Exactly what I've been saying. The seven "P's": Proper Prior Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance. The trick is you need to make it into NEWS that, first, gets coverage, second, doesn't disappear without a trace under tomorrow's political scandal. Size and continuance (having multiple events over time) are historically the most effective ways to accomplish that. You just don't find many small groups having a significant political influence (at least not a non-violent one) without first becoming big groups.*

As for getting positive coverage, lots of luck with the media we have now. The major media is not fair. They are not on our side. They are actively hostile to gun rights. You have to have a plan to deal with that.

As for impact, who do you want to have an impact with? If it's voters, then things like the rally aren't likely to be very productive. Without active media help (which would require changing the attitudes of folk like Katie Couric--lot's of luck with that) what you really need there is a combination of "grassroots" (something like an "every member get a member" campaign**) and advertising. Elsewhere on this board I've written a synopsis of an ad that I thought would be effective in that regard.

If, however, it's lawmakers that one is trying to influence then what you need is to get them thinking that if they don't support this issue then their next election is in jeopardy. That takes numbers. Unless you can make a really convincing case, in the face of people who don't want to believe it, that the folk at the rally are a very small tip of a very large iceberg (far larger than the usual 90%) then you need large rallies. Do you honestly think that the civil rights movement would have gotten off the ground if King's rallies/marches were only attended by a few dozen to a few hundred people? They were large enough to shake people's complacency.

* And the idea of starting with a small rally as a springboard toward growing the group and gathering more supporters, that's entirely viable, but then rallies for that purpose need to be different from rallies to influence politicians. In the first place, the venues are different. Instead of going where the politicians are or where the media is (often much the same places) you need to go where potential recruits are. Maybe at or near college campuses. It comes down to Pami's talk about target audiences. You need to focus. If you want to reach more than one target audience, you may need to consider more than one event (unless the separate target audiences are very closely related with a lot of overlap). If you try to reach everyone, the most likely result will be to reach no one.

**And note that while my circle of friends and acquaintances is rather small, I do recruit from within them. The "Gun control is racist" T-shirt posted design I have been working on is an attempt to recruit from a group that has often been hostile to RKBA. These are just a couple of my activities.

 

[USMC_0311]

Wow. I finally got through this thread.
Before I comment on it though I feel this thread has become cumbersome.
I would like to suggest that a new thread gets started and have it limited to a clearing house of ideas. From that, other threads could come from it and we (those willing to help) could begin to put together some structure.
I would also like for the mods to keep an eye on the threads and remove posts which have nothing to contribute.
If you don't like someone else's idea use some tact in saying it or better yet express your own idea that you deem better.

I would say to those who are opposed to forming some kind event, that you at least do something. We have seen many citizens or subjects of other nations lose their right of personal protection. We know the game of divide and conquer, employed by the governments against gun owners.
If we can't come together as a group of gun owners to show support for our rights, do we even deserve them?
What risks were taken to get them in the first place?
How hard has those who came before us fought to keep them?
How will our children remember us and what we stood for or were afraid to stand for?

bwframe instead of trying to derail something why not try to make it better?
I'm not convinced myself that this has to be a big Rally. If it was that would be awesome. I think that from the disorder going on over at RTKBA that it won't be likely.

David I disagree that a small group cannot have an impact. With proper planning even a couple of people can get positive media coverage. For example your six degrees analogy. It's who you know and what friendly contacts you make.

I do agree that a series of events is also a good thing. We could setup info booths at fairs and festivals. We could organize shoots and welcome the public.

If Fenway is opposed to being associated with this, another site would need to be created so people recruited at the fairs, festivals, shoots and other forms of media (fliers) would have a central place to stay in touch for events.

Lets have your thoughts and ideas on this here and then we can create another thread and keep this moving forward.
SavageEagle don't give up hope
Just don't go borrowing any from Obama.

repd

 

[BloodEclipse]

And the idea of starting with a small rally as a springboard toward growing the group and gathering more supporters, that's entirely viable, but then rallies for that purpose need to be different from rallies to influence politicians. In the first place, the venues are different. Instead of going where the politicians are or where the media is (often much the same places) you need to go where potential recruits are. Maybe at or near college campuses. It comes down to Pami's talk about target audiences. You need to focus. If you want to reach more than one target audience, you may need to consider more than one event (unless the separate target audiences are very closely related with a lot of overlap). If you try to reach everyone, the most likely result will be to reach no one.

Agreed.

First we have to target those who we can educate and get to join our cause.
There is still education that needs to be done with members of this board, let alone the public in general.
Making this a broader cause of defending the constitution may make it easier to draw an audience.
A good mission statement and educational resources are needed.
It is easy to take away freedoms that people don't even know they have and much harder to accomplish that when the people are aware.
By making it broader maybe we start creating that grassroots political party that everybody always wants to vote for, you know, the one that wants to protect all of our rights.

So lets take this a step at a time. Am I wrong in thinking the 1st target audience is the public?
If they are indeed our target what is the best methods to bring them onboard?

 

[ATF Consumer]

I may be young to some of you, I may seem a bit ignorant. Maybe I am. But I don't see any of you coming up with better ideas to secure our rights.

Again, I'm not trying to be the "Leader" of this movement. I'm just spearheading it and pushing it until a REAL leader steps up to the plate. If one does not do so, then I will do my best to be that person. I have no job but being a full-time father at the moment so I have time on my hands when I'm not chasing hellians or running errands or whatever comes my way.

So this is a question we need answered...

Who wants to step up to the plate and lead this thing? Who do you know that has the experience to organize and proceed forward that is WILLING to sacrifice some of their free time?

Like the old game show "tell the truth" use to say..."will the real 'LEADER' please stand up."

If you are in here saying that the way it is currently being organized is not the direction you support, so you are bailing on the idea...ask yourself, "why would you give up on something as important as your constitutionals rights so easily without some honest effort to guide those involved in a positive direction?"

One suggestion I have for all that participate in these discussions...
One of my previous jobs, their main focus when something was broke or had problems was not just bring it to their attention, but have a solution to correct the problem. And why not get involved to help implement your suggestions? Spend some of your hard earned FREE time toward this! Isn't it worth it? Are you simply waiting for someone else to do the work and then reap the benefits of their time and effort? Come on people...we can make a difference if we ALL get involved and get this spearheaded in the right direction.

 

[SirRealism]

First, to derail this or any effort to strengthen our Constitution that doesn't involve violence when it's not necessary, well, what other possible reason could there be besides fear? Honestly. I have no ill will against those who disagree with me, or my ideas, just those who openly attack me for them. Of course to go behind my back and slam me is worse, but offended is offended.

SavageEagle,
I sent you an apology via PM, just in case I'm the one you meant, but I thought I should also say it publicly. I wish I hadn't written the "I'm outa this thread" comment, but since it's been quoted, I can't really edit it now. ::headsmack:: It was childish... I was tired and grumpy... but I should have just gone to bed rather than writing that last post. Nor should I have responded to ATF by PM. That wasn't productive in any way. Lesson learned.

There has been so much written in this thread about things other than the rally (i.e. people's motivations being questioned, etc.) that I thought it was becoming counterproductive. Forums are so great (and esp. this one), but sometimes the medium is inefficient for certain tasks.

Anyway, now I'm taking up space with off topic stuff, so I'll close.

Humbly,
SirRealism

 

[bwframe]

bwframe instead of trying to derail something why not try to make it better?

Did you not read my post?
When accused of derailing this "rally," I laid out the scenario that I would do my best to derail. From the posts in this thread, that scenario is possible.
AGAIN, did you even read it?

Don't accuse me of not offering solutions. I have done this more than once, apparently you're not reading those posts either. That kind of seems to be a common theme in this thread. Ask for advice, then don't heed it. Oh, and then accuse the poster of "doing nothing" or "being afraid" of something.

With the present "rally" organization, or lack there of, the "make it better" is to invest in professional groups, who know what they are doing. Work with them, using their experience to advance the idea.

Now BloodEclipse, I'll toss the same "make it better" back to you.
If you can't sell me, one who already believes in the cause, how in the world do you expect to to recruit new believers?

 

[BloodEclipse]

Did you not read my post?
When accused of derailing this "rally," I laid out the scenario that I would do my best to derail. From the posts in this thread, that scenario is possible.
AGAIN, did you even read it?

Don't accuse me of not offering solutions. I have done this more than once, apparently you're not reading those posts either. That kind of seems to be a common theme in this thread. Ask for advice, then don't heed it. Oh, and then accuse the poster of "doing nothing" or "being afraid" of something.

With the present "rally" organization, or lack there of, the "make it better" is to invest in professional groups, who know what they are doing. Work with them, using their experience to advance the idea.

Now BloodEclipse, I'll toss the same "make it better" back to you.
If you can't sell me, one who already believes in the cause, how in the world do you expect to to recruit new believers?

PM sent.

 

[SavageEagle]

Ok, for those I owed apologies to I have sent them and accepted theirs. This thread has gone WAY off track and it's mostly my fault. I'm just frustrated with everyone's comments on this being a bad idea because it's not. Some of you must think I'm just going to do this my way or no way and that I'm going to do something stupid.

Well I'm not here to do stupid things. I'm here begging for your support to make this happen in A WELL ORGANIZED way. I have contacted the NRA and GOA about this all to no avail. Be it they are too busy or just don't want to really do something that will work in fear their revenue will diminish, I don't know.

David, I really appreciate your insight and This is the kind of stuff we should be talking about. Fundraisers, speakers, what needs to be organized, etc. Which is where I've been trying to go with this all along. Some seem to think I just want to go out there rifles held high screaming "EFF YOU" or whatever, that is not my intention or vision. My intention is to have millions across the nation in their own states, PEACEFULLY, taking a stand, having peope speak to the crowds and media why our Constitution is so important and why these bad laws are unConstitutional and such. That they get the chance to FACE TO FACE talk to their reps and REALLY get their attention since writing letter after letter has made NO difference whatsoever.

There are a great many things to be discussed here and we need only to focus on our own state. There are others doing the same thing and I hope they are being more successful than we are. We have made a milimeter's worth of progress in a mile long race. We need to talk about the issues at hand and what we can do about it.

David you obviously have the most insight on this so far so will you help us to formulate some plan of action and some direction? I know you have done so but it has be spread amongst a great many posts and much emotion.

We really need a new thread for this and possible close this one. I think I may do that if it's ok with everyone?

Edit: I can't close the thread so if a mod would be so kind??

 

[SavageEagle]

Here is the new thread for this discussion to continue. Please read the rules before posting. It's only to keep it on track and civil. Thanks everyone.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/politics_laws_and_2nd_amendment/15291-state_rally_plan_for_action.html

 

[Fenway]

Repped for what 4sarge? I noticed you highlighted my name in red?

repped

 

[4sarge]

Repped for what 4sarge? I noticed you highlighted my name in red?

Repped for Content, Highlighted You in Red as

but if You prefer Blue or Green Highlight, I can Change it for You

 

[Fenway]

My favorite color is blue but red is fine. You are highlighted my name because I'm the Site Admin?

 

[4sarge]

My favorite color is blue but red is fine. You are highlighted my name because I'm the Site Admin?

Blue it is then, Fenway =

in Blue not Highlighted in Red

 

[Fenway]

Great, Thanks!

Blue it is then, Fenway =

in Blue not Highlighted in Red

 

[4sarge]

Great, Thanks!

You are quite

 

[SavageEagle]

Ok boys. if we done with the azz kissin....

Could we close the thread or do we want to leave it open so we can continue the brown nosing to the admin?

You know we luv the admin!

 

[Scutter01]

Ok boys. if we done with the azz kissin....

Could we close the thread or do we want to leave it open so we can continue the brown nosing to the admin?

You know we luv the admin!

Don't forget the mods.