So I might have to stop carrying to church...

[inFALable]

Any time we bring a gun into an environment means we are affecting it. Is the risk of attack worth the potential impact of me bringing a weapon into the environment.

I would like this explained. Few people know I carry anytime I'm awake and clothed. If no one knows I'm armed I'm not changing a thing except the outcome of the wolf attacking the sheep (I may look like a sheep but I'm not one!).

I always carry at church. I can't fathom a reason not to. Especially with the rise of church violence.

 

[CSK22]

I'd wait for them to confront you. Several men carry at my home church, however, we never speak about it.

 

[IBTL]

I would talk to the leadership, as you have. There are two sides to the discussion. The leadership needs to be supportive of the carry, if they tell you not to, and you do carry knowingly, you're likely adding to the chances of liability exposure if you have have to use it on the property.

The leadership also needs to consider, this is a slippery slope. One, the person(s) did not do as the Bible tells them. Your carrying may "offend" them as it says in Matthew. If so, they are to come to you, first, then the leadership if appropriate. As a deacon in my church, I would have said, go to your "brother" first. If they are not "comfortable doing that (perhaps a male/female issue), I could opt to assist them in the discussion. If they still refuse, their conviction must not be that strong. People can find any number of reasons to justify leaving a particular church/faith or to complain about. Good old human nature and free will.

From there, the leadership needs to establish a policy. Either allow it or don't. As a member of that church, I'd follow their leadership or choose to go elsewhere.

Like a school, there are many kids around. I rarely carry during services. Personal choice there. Any time we bring a gun into an environment means we are affecting it. Is the risk of attack worth the potential impact of me bringing a weapon into the environment.

Thanks for your thoughts. I think it's a tough choice to make. I love the church, because they are like family to me. I guess I was looking for some good spiritual advice, too. So far, I'm getting a lot of "just walk away". I've chosen to be a member of the church and I can't just walk away from it. I think that if you really examine the situation, you will come to a given conclusion that ultimately will be for the good. I'm not talking about my good, but God's.

I can find no such scripture, outside of context that prohibits an individual from defending himself, nor do I see enough scripture supporting it (New Testament, not Old...plenty of bloodshed there). I don't know how versed people are on such a topic, but it was my hope that maybe we could flush this out a little more.

Thanks again

 

[IBTL]

I'd wait for them to confront you. Several men carry at my home church, however, we never speak about it.

I think this is ultimately the best answer. I will be ever so discreet, till the moment arises. I have been carrying over a year and haven't heard a peep. So, I kind of take it as a compliment that I haven't been noticed. That's going to change now, since certain people will be looking for the big, scary, black thing.

Where do you go in west lafayette?

 

[ATM]

If those who have a personal problem with your carry are not willing to speak with you about it, they still have the elders' decision on the matter.

There need to be limitations on the extent that one should be willing or expected to bend in order to not cause offense. Unfounded and unsupported offenses need not be pandered to.

If they remain offended, it has now become an issue with the church's position - not just you carrying.
They will need to weigh the importance of their personal gun issue and determine if a church that discouraged physical defense might be a better fit for them.

Deeper concealment does not address the issue, it simply tables the discussion.
I would prefer at least the topic be out in the open rather than hidden (regardless of carry method.)

 

[youngda9]

Just conceal it and don't worry about it anymore. If they can't see it they can't go on worrying about it. I bet the problem will slowly, if not immediately, go away.

 

[Joe Williams]

You have been faced with the choice of leaving the church, or allowing the anti-gunners to force their political agenda on you. A church that allows itself to become politicized has made the choice to forsake a certain number of it's members. I would leave a church and find another before I would permit anti-gunners to place my wife and child in jeapardy. I feel such behavior is sinful on their behalf. If someone is uncomfortable with those that have chosen not to be willing victims, no one is forcing them to carry guns. For a church to demand that you do so is unacceptable, to me. There are plenty of churches out there, and my relationship with Christ and God isn't tied to any one of them. As for "the money is God's, not mine," perhaps... but again there are lots of ways to get that money to God, and they don't have to lead through any one particular church. You can try to conceal if you wish. But I'd lay long odds that someone will try to give you a big ole hug to see if you are, and then complain again. Church is one place I do always CC, but I'd leave a church that tried to force an anti-gun agenda on me. As I said, I feel such behavior is sinful. It is my duty to protect what God has entrusted me with, with the tools and skills he has provided.

That's my , it's something we all have to make our own decisions on.

 

[TheCapulet]

Thanks for your thoughts. I think it's a tough choice to make. I love the church, because they are like family to me. I guess I was looking for some good spiritual advice, too. So far, I'm getting a lot of "just walk away". I've chosen to be a member of the church and I can't just walk away from it. I think that if you really examine the situation, you will come to a given conclusion that ultimately will be for the good. I'm not talking about my good, but God's.

I know exactly how you feel. I feel the same way about my home church. Unforntunately, my home church has it's fair share of 'pot sturrers', so I have no doubt I'll have to deal with this very same situation when I start carrying.

I can find no such scripture, outside of context that prohibits an individual from defending himself, nor do I see enough scripture supporting it (New Testament, not Old...plenty of bloodshed there). I don't know how versed people are on such a topic, but it was my hope that maybe we could flush this out a little more.

Thanks again

Most people looking for a reason to single you out for carrying would quote verses like Matthew 5:38-42 (sermon on the mount, turn the other cheek), and Exodus 20:13 (Thou shall not murder). But they fail to see how the Lord wasn't teaching outright pacifism, but only the intolerance of evil, and the opportunities to let the Love of Christ overcome slights against us.

Christ instructs us to turn the other cheek, not in pacifism, but in rebellion against sin against us. But he's not instructing us to leave ourselves undefended to greater evil, such as those who would steal our innocence (rape), hurt us grievously (serious assault), torture, and kill us.

Yet if we look at other passages such as Matthew chapter 21 where Christ drives the exploiters from the Temple in Jerusalem, we see by his actions what his instructions would be against greater evil. His intolerance of greater evil doesn't mean ignoring it and hoping it gets better, but doing what's most effective in his battle against it. And had some random dude walked up to him intending to kill him before his time, I'm sure Christ wouldn't have just let the guy toss a spear through him, but instead would have done what was best in that battle, be it stopping the spear mid air, or smiting the dude on the spot.

It's just the same in our perspective. If it's our time for death, we could have any arsenal we want at our disposal, and it's not going to matter one bit. But we have a duty to protect ourselves and those around us against evil that would bring an end to our lives before our time.

In a world where Christians are singled out for violence and ridicule, our defiance of evil becomes ever more dangerous. Pacifism was never the way of the Lord, and I doubt very much the Lord intended it to be ours. So anyone suggesting we don't carry a gun to protect ourselves in rebellion against serious harm that others would do unto us in their evil nature need to take a step back and think a moment about just what kind of things they're willing to tolerate.

 

[indytechnerd]

IBTL, it seems that a lot of folks have given a lot of opinions. I have to ask, though, have you asked Him what you should do?

If you believe that God has called you to be a sheepdog, maybe the only sheepdog there, then do it. Buy the P-11, tuck it into a pocket and keep on keepin' on.

In the end, since you aren't (from what I've read) violating any laws, He is the only person you have to answer to. And, that is where you need to look for guidance on this.

 

[IBTL]

IBTL, it seems that a lot of folks have given a lot of opinions. I have to ask, though, have you asked Him what you should do?

If you believe that God has called you to be a sheepdog, maybe the only sheepdog there, then do it. Buy the P-11, tuck it into a pocket and keep on keepin' on.

In the end, since you aren't (from what I've read) violating any laws, He is the only person you have to answer to. And, that is where you need to look for guidance on this.

Thanks for the thoughts. I have done a bit of praying and I just know that God has given me the tools and the knowledge to defend myself. After looking pretty heavily at the Scriptures, I have come to the conclusion that it IS a matter of choice, just like anywhere else I carry. If I can carry in a library, a groccery store, or wherever else, then I should be able to carry in my church. 'Render unto Caesar, what is Caesar's." so long as I keep from sin. Bottom line: carrying is NOT a sin, lol.

I just pray that I'll NEVER have to use it.

You have been faced with the choice of leaving the church, or allowing the anti-gunners to force their political agenda on you. A church that allows itself to become politicized has made the choice to forsake a certain number of it's members. I would leave a church and find another before I would permit anti-gunners to place my wife and child in jeapardy. I feel such behavior is sinful on their behalf. If someone is uncomfortable with those that have chosen not to be willing victims, no one is forcing them to carry guns. For a church to demand that you do so is unacceptable, to me. There are plenty of churches out there, and my relationship with Christ and God isn't tied to any one of them. As for "the money is God's, not mine," perhaps... but again there are lots of ways to get that money to God, and they don't have to lead through any one particular church. You can try to conceal if you wish. But I'd lay long odds that someone will try to give you a big ole hug to see if you are, and then complain again. Church is one place I do always CC, but I'd leave a church that tried to force an anti-gun agenda on me. As I said, I feel such behavior is sinful. It is my duty to protect what God has entrustedame with, with the tools and skills he has provided.

That's my , it's something we all have to make our own decisions on.

I agree with some what's said here. I believe you should take a look at Gal 6:2. It tells us 'to bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ', meaning if we are truly 'walking in the Spirit', we have a duty to our Christian brothers and sisters. Not trying to sound preachy here. I respect your opinions, but I think there is more to this.

 

[GarandMD]

I may have missed this in reading the thread but I am assuming that your church does not have a school or pre-school which, if present, would indeed possibly change the discussion too a legal one.

 

[TheCapulet]

I may have missed this in reading the thread but I am assuming that your church does not have a school or pre-school which, if present, would indeed possibly change the discussion too a legal one.

I'm sure this would have been a much larger issue, if that were the case. More than likely we'd be hearing about his gun and LTC being confiscated and some type of criminal charges, instead of just some cranky old lefty women who want something to complain about to fuel their bible study slander sessions. :P

 

[Nsw550]

Look at this way...another reason to get a new gun you may have had your eye on

 

[indyk]

so....conceal it

If its still a problem and your got pastor Steve lifting up your shirt to check.

Go to another place of worship.

 

[infidel]

snip

There need to be limitations on the extent that one should be willing or expected to bend in order to not cause offense. Unfounded and unsupported offenses need not be pandered to.

snip

Deeper concealment does not address the issue, it simply tables the discussion.
I would prefer at least the topic be out in the open rather than hidden (regardless of carry method.)

THIS. Best answer so far.

So you conceal it better or get a more concealable gun. Then they find out. Then they say don't bring it in. Then they say don't leave it in your car on the property. Then they make an example out of you and embarrass you and your family by kicking you out to discourage gun ownership.

Fight this now, and fight it right. Because if you don't, it won't stop.

The issue is is not addressable by you changing how you do things. It is now your job for them to understand, if not for the reason you carry, then at least that you can.

I thought people went to church to worships their god? Why do some people have to make it a political event?

 

[Joe Williams]

snip

I agree with some what's said here. I believe you should take a look at Gal 6:2. It tells us 'to bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ', meaning if we are truly 'walking in the Spirit', we have a duty to our Christian brothers and sisters. Not trying to sound preachy here. I respect your opinions, but I think there is more to this.

Do you feel they are meeting that obligation in respect to you and your family?

 

[lovemachine]

I don't think it really matters what you do. No matter how much you explain the reasoning on why you carry to other people, it's not, possibly never, going to change their way of thinking. People actually think it's pretty much "evil" for us to carry. Once we're seen carrying, they automatically categorize us all to the bad guys. The gang bangers. I don't think this will ever change. Every time I open carry, I always get those looks. If you pay attention to them, you even start to feel like your the "bad guy". Yes, you just need to shrug it off and ignore them. But we will never change the way everyone thinks. So the OP will never be able to convince the entire church that carrying is actually a good thing. You may have the elders and the preachers on your side. But they will still have the congregation complaining that you are carrying. So they will probably have to think the majority, and just ban firearms from entering that particular church. I still think the OP should just conceal it from everyone. You still have your gun, and everyone else thinks you just stopped bringing it.

 

[LLDJR]

so conceal your weapon, be discreet,, and everything should be fine.

I carry a Kahr PM40 and no one knows or can tell that i CC, except the other 10-12 people that also CC

 

[LLDJR]

I thought people went to church to worships their god? Why do some people have to make it a political event?

I thought people went to Walmart to shop, why do some have to make it a political event?

or

I thought people went to the Movies to see a show, why do some have to make it a political event?

Its all the same.....

Because people are "HUMAN" and will be HUMAN until they are gone from this earth, God gave each being "freedom of choice" , so just like people choose to accept God or not accept God,,, people will choose to be afraid of or not be afraid of guns etc,, it goes on an on.

This is not about worshiping their God, it is about people being afraid of guns or people that carry them.


Carry on.................

 

[JDonhardt]

Are there any biblical verses to the effect of "Carry thy sword" or "Defend thine own blood" or something of the like? If so, I'm sure you know what to do with them.