So I might have to stop carrying to church...

[ATM]

...I've learned to pick the battles I can win and I simply avoid those I cannot! It's not worth the headache!

Battles I know I can win do not entice me as much as a challenge.

I live for headaches!


I would be interested to find out if the OP's complainer has a problem with carrying in general or just carrying at church.
That would change the degree of challenge or headache one might expect if a conversation were to take place.

 

[scsar15]

It really shouldn't be a problem. Remember when all else is gone it will be just you and God so keep your religion/church. That said, no matter where you carry, it is in your interest that no one knows you are carrying or you might be the first target. I would apologize for the disruption and make sure I discreetly carry from now on. "Go and make disciples...."

 

[Sweetums]

I live for headaches!

Here I am!

 

[ATM]

...no matter where you carry, it is in your interest that no one knows you are carrying or you might be the first target...

You're new here, huh?

Your statement would likely take this thread's topic off course so here's a couple existing ones on that topic:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lf_defense/37307-common_oc_cc_threadjack.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lf_defense/71996-the_open_carry_argument.html

Here I am!

Can't you see I'm busy here?

 

[17Chap]

IBTL: I am a pastor and I don't play one on TV. If you're still out there I'll add my two cents, or maybe one of the two since it's late and I'm tired.

I think your original response was good. I commend you for being sensitive and not wanting to drive the offended away, You, of course, do not have to acquiesce but I imagine you're viewing them as a "weaker brother" and not wanting to flaunt your liberty at thier expense. If you read Paul's epistles carefully, he talks on both sides of this offense issue. I won't go into everything here, but really the final decision in this has to be you, your family and what you feel the Lord would have you do. It is a matter of you and the situation.

Someone else posted that they should have come to you. That is correct. Your elders are only trying to keep the peace, but in our church the response would have been differently and one of teaching about self-defense.

To that end here are a couple of excellent articles by Dave Kopel. I suggest you pass them to your church leadership for their input.

http://davekopel.org/Religion/Is-the-best-defense-a-good-book.pdf

http://www.davekopel.com/Religion/Best-Defense-Part-II.pdf

Blessings, pm me for further or a phone number.

Jess

 

[modelflyer2003]

You could always tell them you are clinging to yours guns and religion.

 

[IBTL]

17Chap,

Thanks for the encouragement and thank you for the links. I should be clear that it was brought up to one elder and friend of my 'accuser'. Had they gone to either of the other 2 elders, they would have been asked, "Have you spoke with him(me, that is) about it?" Then, they would have escorted them straight to me and would have started the dialogue as soon as it was mentioned. Unfortunately, they are hiding behind the elder/s as to avoid the attention, not the best way to handle the situation.

I'm glad that you are recognizing the "weaker brother" aspect, too. This is not to make me sound puffed up, but I have been taking that into consideration as well. Then there is the whole, "lawful, but not profitable" thing too.

So much to consider...it helps to have encouragement from some of the spiritual leaders of the forum. It has helped me a lot.

Thank you, sir and to others offering constructive criticism.

 

[IBTL]

It really shouldn't be a problem. Remember when all else is gone it will be just you and God so keep your religion/church. That said, no matter where you carry, it is in your interest that no one knows you are carrying or you might be the first target. I would apologize for the disruption and make sure I discreetly carry from now on. "Go and make disciples...."

Wow! Post number two!! Welcome to INGO!!!

 

[melensdad]

It really shouldn't be a problem. Remember when all else is gone it will be just you and God so keep your religion/church. That said, no matter where you carry, it is in your interest that no one knows you are carrying or you might be the first target. I would apologize for the disruption and make sure I discreetly carry from now on. "Go and make disciples...."

While carrying in church would perhaps be good for the flock, it seems clear that the "first target" portion of your statement was sarcasm and should have been in purple. This has been discussed many times on INGO and there is absolutely no evidence that any incident of a civilian ever being targeted first by a robber. Sure, bank guards and cops have been targeted. But never a civilian. Further there are many fine examples of people openly carrying a gun actually stopping a crime. While I don't advocate open carry in a church, and while I do agree that proper concealment has its place and in a crowded church is one of those places, it seems very inappropriate to spread misinformation about guns on a gun board. JMHO

 

[matrxx]

Frustatingly sad news,

There was a complaint about my carrying to church services. It seems that some people believe it's morally wrong for me to do so. Furthermore, they didn't confront me directly. They went to my church elder and complained to him.

Long story short, I was asked why I carried. I replied, "because I love my wife and will not permit a violent crime to come against her. It's not illegal nor is it sinful to protect yourself from criminals."

Of course, the elders were won over by logic and they personally had no objections to my carrying. But the fact remains that I have become a stumbling block for some. Then I replied, "what about me? Wouldn't they become a stumbling block for me and my family?" Again, they agreed with me that they had no less right to impose their beliefs upon me. Gun rights 2, and gun grabbers 0.

Finally, it was asked that if the situation got to the point that there was an uproar about my carrying, would I not carry in order to keep the peace. After a long thought, I answered, "yes; under one condition..."

"That my accusers personally come and ask me to deny my very right to defend my wife and loved ones from violence." Now, I don't know where all this was coming from. It was felt good to be able speak the truth without getting angry or being misunderstood. Frankly, I didn't think I would ever hear myself say those words.

So, that's my sad news folks. I guess I need to uber-discreet when I carry, so that I don't scare anybody at services. I won't be asked not to carry by my elders (who shouldn't have been bothered with the issue in the first place). Might be time to buy that Kel-tec P11...

You are not allowed to carry your weapon to church.
If you want to then conceal avoiding got caught,but I guess if it was your wife,then... but what's wrong with that?I don't give a darn what she says,I don't mean anything but respect...

 

[Roadie]

You are not allowed to carry your weapon to church.
If you want to then conceal avoiding got caught,but I guess if it was your wife,then... but what's wrong with that?I don't give a darn what she says,I don't mean anything but respect...

What exactly do you mean by "you are not allowed to carry your weapon to church"?

Can you cite Indiana Code to back that statement up, or are you just assuming?

 

[RA8]

HA! Well, if anybody lives in Lafayette and wants to come...

I live in lafayette, but i'm an atheist.

 

[RA8]

What exactly do you mean by "you are not allowed to carry your weapon to church"?

Can you cite Indiana Code to back that statement up, or are you just assuming?

I agree, I'd like to hear his explanation. But isnt it true that most churches have some sort of "sunday school" attached to them that throws a stick in the spokes?

 

[RA8]

I had my glock 26 blessed at church

I think training might do a bit better than some magical waving of hands.

Speaking of training, if I haven't offended everyone here, can someone please teach me how to use the multi quote function?

 

[Joe Williams]

I agree, I'd like to hear his explanation. But isnt it true that most churches have some sort of "sunday school" attached to them that throws a stick in the spokes?

"Sunday school," for the purposes of the law, do not equal "school." The only thing you have to be on the lookout for are pre-schools, daycares, and a private school attached to the main building.

 

[RA8]

"Sunday school," for the purposes of the law, do not equal "school." The only thing you have to be on the lookout for are pre-schools, daycares, and a private school attached to the main building.

Daycares? as in any establishment where kids are being taken care of professionally? Wow, did not know that.

 

[matrxx]

I agree, I'd like to hear his explanation. But isnt it true that most churches have some sort of "sunday school" attached to them that throws a stick in the spokes?

I'm sorry for my ignorance,please educate me if I'm wrong:

Section PC*46.035-part b-paragraph 6 states:
" A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally,knowingly,or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of...regardless of whether the handgun is concealed,on or about the license holder's person:
on the premises of a church,synagogue,or other established place of religious worship."

 

[kwatters]

Hi guys and girls;
I have no problem with open carry period, but a lot of misinformed people do. That's why I carry concealed and avoid the problems that OC can create. I think the Pastor at my church is the only one that knows for sure that I carry and that's because he gave me a friendly hug one Sunday and his eyes got real big when he did but he is OK with it, besides, I'm the Chairman of the Board of Directors at church and I've known quite a few Pastors, Priest, Rabis and the like that also carry. They just keep it under wraps. I don't care what enemys think about it but I don't like to make friends uncomfortable needlessly.

LOL, is that a GLOCK in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?

 

[eldirector]

I'm sorry for my ignorance,please educate me if I'm wrong:

Section PC*46.035-part b-paragraph 6 states:
" A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally,knowingly,or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of...regardless of whether the handgun is concealed,on or about the license holder's person:
on the premises of a church,synagogue,or other established place of religious worship."

Google tells me that is the Texas Penal Code, not Indiana.

See the INGO FAQ for the citation of the correct Indiana code.

In short, schools (narrowly defined by the State), licensed daycare, and licensed pre-school. Sunday School does not count. Nor does a room with some kids in it being watched by an adult (the "daycare" run during services).

 

[ATM]

Google tells me that is the Texas Penal Code, not Indiana.

D'oh!



Rhino owes Kirk another case of .45.