Sikh U.S. Army captain allowed to wear beard, turban in uniform

[chezuki]

If I were too blunt, a moderator might grunt about such a stunt and punt me from the forum.

See you next Tuesday.

 

[actaeon277]

The C* cap was the worst. WTF is the point of wearing an envelope on your head? Who came up with that as a hat?

"So, what we're looking for is something that folds flat, is floppy and shapeless, looks ridiculous, offers little to no actual protection from sun/rain/cold...and can you make it look like it was designed for people with a wedge shaped head? Great, thanks, see you Thursday."

At least it could be cocked at a jaunty angle:

Could be worse, you coulda had one of these

Course, if you go fleet, you can wear a ship's ball cap. Even better on a sub, because we wore dress outfits maybe once a year. I don't even think it was that often.

 

[2A_Tom]

The Beret means nothing since they made it general issue.

 

[HICKMAN]

If I recall, I met a couple of Sikh's while I was in back in the early 90's, one was a dentist, the other a doctor. Think both are retired right now, don't see what the big deal is.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The Beret means nothing since they made it general issue.

Wasn't that recanted? A friend of mine's daughter shipped to basic and she'd said the general issue "everyone's special" beret went away. I know, I know, recruit, but she did the JROTC stuff so I thought she might know.

 

[cerebus85]

So I've known several soldier who have worn crosses both in garrison and in the field. I have never known a local national or soldier to complain about it. If anything it breeds positive discussion on morality and family. However some of the harshest people I have been around have been those of Christian background and atheism. Most Muslim or non Christian religions have primarily kept to themselves on the issues or genuinely don't care.
As far as the beard thing goes. If it seals it seals. I had a decent scruff on my last world tour, and my gas mask wasn't my main concern. If this guy has the amount of desire not only for his region but for his country. Well I think that's one of the few examples of somebody who should be serving. The military can't continue to be narrow focused in the age of globalization. The Brits figured it out. The Israelis figured it out. Why should we limit ourselves. You don't remain the greatest military in the world by keeping the doctrine of 1950s and just adding drones and multicam. I'm out.

 

[oldpink]

So I've known several soldier who have worn crosses both in garrison and in the field. I have never known a local national or soldier to complain about it. If anything it breeds positive discussion on morality and family. However some of the harshest people I have been around have been those of Christian background and atheism. Most Muslim or non Christian religions have primarily kept to themselves on the issues or genuinely don't care.
As far as the beard thing goes. If it seals it seals. I had a decent scruff on my last world tour, and my gas mask wasn't my main concern. If this guy has the amount of desire not only for his region but for his country. Well I think that's one of the few examples of somebody who should be serving. The military can't continue to be narrow focused in the age of globalization. The Brits figured it out. The Israelis figured it out. Why should we limit ourselves. You don't remain the greatest military in the world by keeping the doctrine of 1950s and just adding drones and multicam. I'm out.

It's not just about gas masks.
Look up the USS Conyngham (DDG-17) to see another example where a mask must seal in order to stay alive and stop a ship from burning to the waterline.
Why is this concept so difficult to understand, and Syria's dictator, Bashard Assad, only two or three years ago violated on of our Fearless Leader's "red lines" by deploying chemical weapons against other Syrians.
There's a reason we did CBR drills in the military, however unlikely, because we know full that there are plenty of other countries out there with mustard, phosgene, Sarin, and even VX, not to mention anthrax and other little goodies.

 

[phylodog]

It's not just about gas masks.
Look up the USS Conyngham (DDG-17) to see another example where a mask must seal in order to stay alive and stop a ship from burning to the waterline.
Why is this concept so difficult to understand, and Syria's dictator, Bashard Assad, only two or three years ago violated on of our Fearless Leader's "red lines" by deploying chemical weapons against other Syrians.
There's a reason we did CBR drills in the military, however unlikely, because we know full that there are plenty of other countries out there with mustard, phosgene, Sarin, and even VX, not to mention anthrax and other little goodies.

If a person who wants to serve this country is aware of the issues you mention and is willing to serve in spite of them I say let them do it. Many men in our history have gone forward knowing their chances of survival were slim to none and they went anyway. I just don't see the point in denying someone the privilege of serving if that is their desire.

 

[printcraft]

.......It's like the position of Uniformed Services Haberdasher has attracted some strange talent. Either that or the hatters truly are mad.

Mercury induced madness.

Thankfully there isn't any mercury in printing ink....... at least.... not anymore....
We don't think it had any effect on us.

I'm not so sure.

You better get checked.

I feel fine.

 

[oldpink]

If a person who wants to serve this country is aware of the issues you mention and is willing to serve in spite of them I say let them do it. Many men in our history have gone forward knowing their chances of survival were slim to none and they went anyway. I just don't see the point in denying someone the privilege of serving if that is their desire.

The problem is that the military does not consist of autonomous persons whose actions don't affect others in their unit.
One man gets compromised in some way, either wounded, killed, or otherwise drastically reduced in his capacity to do battle, and his comrades will have to pick up his slack or worse, rescue him because he just shrugged and said damn the consequences.
Again, why is this concept so difficult to understand?
It's almost as if the many veterans on this forum have taken leave of the knowledge that gained in the military.
SMH

 

[cerebus85]

They said his mask seals it seals. This captains assumes the risks associated as does his mates. If something happens like a cbrn event he would have a finite time to reach the resources available. I wouldn't have a problem serving with him..

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What does firefighting on a ship have to do with an Army captain?

 

[oldpink]

What does firefighting on a ship have to do with an Army captain?

If an exception is granted to an Army captain, why is it such a stretch for one granted for a Boiler Technician, Machinist's Mate, or Damage Controlman on a Navy ship?
You, of all people, should know that.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If an exception is granted to an Army captain, why is it such a stretch for one granted for a Boiler Technician, Machinist's Mate, or Damage Controlman on a Navy ship?
You, of all people, should know that.

Yeah. "Shaving bump" profiles were a thing even when I was in. Either you can serve with a beard or you can't. If you can, then anyone should be allowed one. If you can't, then you aren't fit for active duty if you can't shave.

This is, frankly, one of the issues with military standards. They often have little bonafide requirement behind them...and if they do they are ignored when convenient.

Bonafide job requirements. He is not a firefighter. He is also not the first or only guy with a beard.

 

[oldpink]

Bonafide job requirements. He is not a firefighter. He is also not the first or only guy with a beard.

I've got news for you, you don't have to be a BT, MM, or DC to have occasion to put on firefighting gear, including the OBA (Oxygen Breathing Apparatus) mask.
One of our Gunner's Mates in my division had recently come over to our ship from the USS Conyngham, which had caught fire, and he had indeed suited up complete with OBA to help put out the fire.
We Gunner's Mates' job requirements involve loading and firing guns at the enemy, not putting on a firefighting ensemble, but firefighting in the Navy is an all hands experience.
It can happen to anyone at any time, and there's more than just the "military brass just wants to spoil our fun" esthetic element that motivates requiring uniform grooming standards.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I've got news for you, you don't have to be a BT, MM, or DC to have occasion to put on firefighting gear, including the OBA (Oxygen Breathing Apparatus) mask.
One of our Gunner's Mates in my division had recently come over to our ship from the USS Conyngham, which had caught fire, and he had indeed suited up complete with OBA to help put out the fire.
We Gunner's Mates' job requirements involve loading and firing guns at the enemy, not putting on a firefighting ensemble, but firefighting in the Navy is an all hands experience.
It can happen to anyone at any time, and there's more than just the "military brass just wants to spoil our fun" esthetic element that motivates requiring uniform grooming standards.

Yes, I know. There are two jobs in the Navy. Painter and firefighter.

The Army isn't the Navy, and your bonafide job requirements are not ours.

 

[oldpink]

Yes, I know. There are two jobs in the Navy. Painter and firefighter.

The Army isn't the Navy, and your bonafide job requirements are not ours.

Get back with me about that when an Army unit gets hit with a chemical attack.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Hint: SEALs often sport beards, all the better to blend into native populations they may infiltrate, but you'll see the razor and shaving cream come out immediately if they ever need to mask up against a chemical attack, fight a fire, or anything else where a beard would compromise the mask's seal.

Where do those guys carry their razors that allows them to shave and don and seal a mask in time to stay alive? That's badass, all by itself.

I was thinking the same thing. To paraphrase a well known saying "When seconds count, a clean shave is only minutes away".

You still haven't answered where the SEAL carry their razor and shaving cream, I remember hearing one SEAL talking about selecting gear for a mission and trying to decide what to take and what to leave behind. I doubt they are going to be carrying anything unnecessary if it means leaving anything behind.

Also how in the heck do they shave so fast if needed? Is it some sort of secret squirrel SEAL speed shaving schooling(Henceforth known as the 6s system)?

It's not just about gas masks.
Look up the USS Conyngham (DDG-17) to see another example where a mask must seal in order to stay alive and stop a ship from burning to the waterline.

There's a reason we did CBR drills in the military, however unlikely, because we know full that there are plenty of other countries out there with mustard, phosgene, Sarin, and even VX, not to mention anthrax and other little goodies.

I've got news for you, you don't have to be a BT, MM, or DC to have occasion to put on firefighting gear, including the OBA (Oxygen Breathing Apparatus) mask.

It can happen to anyone at any time, and there's more than just the "military brass just wants to spoil our fun" esthetic element that motivates requiring uniform grooming standards.

Get back with me about that when an Army unit gets hit with a chemical attack.

What about the 100,000 who are currently aloud to have beards due to medical conditions? Or those who's facial structure/features/etc prohibits a proper seal?
Couldn't this gentleman learn the 6s system?

 

[oldpink]

I give up.
Way too much stupid around here to even bother with any longer.

 

[Alpo]

I give up.
Way too much stupid around here to even bother with any longer.

That's the spirit. Much like the French.

Note that his helmet doesn't work for gas either.

But that's not the point.