Sikh U.S. Army captain allowed to wear beard, turban in uniform

[Alpo]

Kudos to the US Army. I have never met a Sikh that was not an honorable person, and I've had dealings with quite a few. As for the long hair, Sikh culture states it must be well-maintained and kept. The turban covers the hair.

As far as whether or not this is a good thing, I'm all for it.

And I agree with others out there, that turban looks awesome!

Ditto

 

[BehindBlueI's]

We all have our own biases, I'm just one of the few that admit it. I can imagine, that my bias stems from the fact that a turban isn't a very traditional look in the U.S. military. We've kinda been bred on the idea that a soldier has that "all-American" football stud look. Long hair and beards seem a lil to hippy/hipster-ish. Obviously, it's wrong to think that way, but it's something we'll have to overcome.

Kut (doesn't like the look, but begrudgingly accepts it)

I'm not seeing the relevance of your bias, one way or the other, on unit cohesion, good order, and discipline of military units. Help me out.
Are you saying current soldiers in this man's unit share your bias?
Are you saying your opinion on the matter effects unit cohesion for military units that are unaware of your existence?

 

[oldpink]

We all have our own biases, I'm just one of the few that admit it. I can imagine, that my bias stems from the fact that a turban isn't a very traditional look in the U.S. military. We've kinda been bred on the idea that a soldier has that "all-American" football stud look. Long hair and beards seem a lil to hippy/hipster-ish. Obviously, it's wrong to think that way, but it's something we'll have to overcome.

Kut (doesn't like the look, but begrudgingly accepts it)

You're on the right track, but it's more important than that.
It comes down to encouraging a uniform set of standards for dress and grooming, just two key elements of a multitude of other standards that encourage a sense of cohesion, camaraderie, a sense of belonging, if you will.
And that's even before we get down to the practical (helmets, face masks, first aid, and on and on) problems introduced by such a huge exemption.
And it's not as if we can just overcome those practical problems by giving these dress and grooming exemptions only to those who wouldn't ordinarily encounter problems caused by them, since even those in a supporting role can unexpectedly find themselves in a situation that would suddenly make those exemptions into a huge liability, resulting in the death of those with the beards and turbans and those they may need to save in combat or an accident situation.
Worse still, entire units can be wiped out or taken prisoner because of the proverbial "weak link" this introduces.
As I said, all that I've ever heard about the Sikhs makes it impossible not to greatly admire and like them, but the purpose of our military is not to serve as a jobs program with an exemption for every little request.

 

[GREEN607]

I never served, but would have liked to. I have a steel plate in my upper arm that was a 'dis-qualifier' when I tried to enlist in the Air Force, years ago. My Dad served 8 years in the Air Force.

I feel that there must be certain standards for appearance and conduct in our military.... but regarding this, in particular, I don't have any objections. Then again, who asked me.... right?!

 

[Route 45]

If we are going to reach out for transgender recruits why not allow a guy to have a beard.

Are you equating religious beliefs with "gender identity" nonsense? Or are you against transgenders with beards? Or are you saying that transgenders are ok, but only if they have beards? What are you saying? Help me out here.

The old fashioned concepts of unit cohesion, good order and discipline are dead.

How? Please explain.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I enjoy the argument that soldiers must look alike to have unit cohesion. Take that to its logical conclusions.

There were at least 4 styles of authorized boots in my unit. I'm surprised we didn't strangle each other in our bunks over the obvious issues with unit cohesion.

 

[iChokePeople]

You're on the right track, but it's more important than that.
It comes down to encouraging a uniform set of standards for dress and grooming, just two key elements of a multitude of other standards that encourage a sense of cohesion, camaraderie, a sense of belonging, if you will.
And that's even before we get down to the practical (helmets, face masks, first aid, and on and on) problems introduced by such a huge exemption.
And it's not as if we can just overcome those practical problems by giving these dress and grooming exemptions only to those who wouldn't ordinarily encounter problems caused by them, since even those in a supporting role can unexpectedly find themselves in a situation that would suddenly make those exemptions into a huge liability, resulting in the death of those with the beards and turbans and those they may need to save in combat or an accident situation.
Worse still, entire units can be wiped out or taken prisoner because of the proverbial "weak link" this introduces.
As I said, all that I've ever heard about the Sikhs makes it impossible not to greatly admire and like them, but the purpose of our military is not to serve as a jobs program with an exemption for every little request.

This isn't a bad argument, it's just long since dead. We've already allowed way too many bigger problems to worry about a turban and a beard. Just for fun, though, I think you'd have a tough time selling the idea that the guys in the military today who frequently sport facial hair are the weakest links.

 

[Trigger Time]

Eh, they don't like Muslims. Let them wear whatever they want

 

[GIJEW]

The training I had with gas masks 35 years ago in the IDF was rudimentary. Having said that--about the gas seal thing--running with a beard and gas mask, I couldn't suck oxygen through the filter fast enough! I am curious how he adjusts the helmet suspension so that it doesn't sit way on top of his head.

 

[oldpink]

This isn't a bad argument, it's just long since dead. We've already allowed way too many bigger problems to worry about a turban and a beard. Just for fun, though, I think you'd have a tough time selling the idea that the guys in the military today who frequently sport facial hair are the weakest links.

Maybe if you ever took the time to educate yourself about the practical considerations that I mentioned, you'd understand exactly why a beard or a huge mass of hair under a turban can indeed turn someone who would otherwise be the biggest badass in a unit into either a dead man or get others killed.
Hint: SEALs often sport beards, all the better to blend into native populations they may infiltrate, but you'll see the razor and shaving cream come out immediately if they ever need to mask up against a chemical attack, fight a fire, or anything else where a beard would compromise the mask's seal.
It's endlessly amusing getting ridiculed by someone so clearly clueless about a subject though, but then, you've come to be known for that, so thanks for the laugh.

 

[iChokePeople]

Maybe if you ever took the time to educate yourself about the practical considerations that I mentioned, you'd understand exactly why a beard or a huge mass of hair under a turban can indeed turn someone who would otherwise be the biggest badass in a unit into either a dead man or get others killed.
Hint: SEALs often sport beards, all the better to blend into native populations they may infiltrate, but you'll see the razor and shaving cream come out immediately if they ever need to mask up against a chemical attack, fight a fire, or anything else where a beard would compromise the mask's seal.
It's endlessly amusing getting ridiculed by someone so clearly clueless about a subject though, but then, you've come to be known for that, so thanks for the laugh.

Yes, completely clueless about what it's like to be in the military. Thanks for enlightening me.

 

[oldpink]

Yes, completely clueless about what it's like to be in the military. Thanks for enlightening me.

If you're trying to imply that you speak as a veteran, you should be more embarrassed about that silliness than if you had never served.

 

[chezuki]

Yes, completely clueless about what it's like to be in the military. Thanks for enlightening me.

You probably think you're some kind of badass tough guy huh? Sissy!









Just to confirm, you moved really far away right? Right?!??

 

[iChokePeople]

If you're trying to imply that you speak as a veteran, you should be more embarrassed about that silliness than if you had never served.

Oh ****. I think that was the interweb equivalent of a hard look.

Noted. Clearly you're much more experienced than I am. Preach on.

Where do those guys carry their razors that allows them to shave and don and seal a mask in time to stay alive? That's badass, all by itself.

Chezuki, I'm the weakest link.

 

[2A_Tom]

I would probably support Captain Singh.

It is amazing though, that Christians (including Chaplains) who are instructed in the Bible to share their faith are forbidden to.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Hint: SEALs often sport beards, all the better to blend into native populations they may infiltrate, but you'll see the razor and shaving cream come out immediately if they ever need to mask up against a chemical attack, fight a fire, or anything else where a beard would compromise the mask's seal.

Oh ****. I think that was the interweb equivalent of a hard look. Noted. Clearly you're much more experienced than I am. Preach on. Where do those guys carry their razors that allows them to shave and don and seal a mask in time to stay alive? That's badass, all by itself. Chezuki, I'm the weakest link.

I was thinking the same thing. To paraphrase a well known saying "When seconds count, a clean shave is only minutes away".

 

[Route 45]

I would probably support Captain Singh.

It is amazing though, that Christians (including Chaplains) who are instructed in the Bible to share their faith are forbidden to.

When did this start? I was in the Army in the late 1980's, and I don't remember any such nonsense.
I thought that was the purpose of the chaplain. You wouldn't hire a janitor to not clean anything.

 

[Sylvain]

The Brits have allowed Sikhs to wear beard and turban in uniform for quite some time, both for their police and their military.
I don't think they're having any problem with it.

Or Canada ...

 

[indiucky]

I never served so my opinion doesn't matter.....These photos are from my grandfather's time in WW 2 in Sicily and Italy....There seems to not be much cohesion in their uniforms.....





This photo was taken after Monte Cassino...My grandfather is easy to see to those who know me...To those who have not he is the gentleman with the 1934 Beretta Holster hanging from his trouser belt at the end....

 

[iChokePeople]

When did this start? I was in the Army in the late 1980's, and I don't remember any such nonsense.
I thought that was the purpose of the chaplain. You wouldn't hire a janitor to not clean anything.

I was wondering the same, but have no background in what chaplains are or are not allowed to do. I do know that it didn't SEEM to be prohibited, as chaplains of various faiths were very open about sharing their beliefs. It's certainly possible that there are restrictions around it, but if so, they were widely ignored in the 80s and 90s.