Shut her down boys, shut her down.

[Kutnupe14]

Are people here wanting the gov't to spend even MORE money? Really?
A wall won't stop people from coming over it with ladders, remember Viet Nam?
A wall must be guarded by armed soldiers to be effective.
If armed soldiers are on the border then no wall is necessary.

When I was a US Army soldier I pulled guard on the East German border many times.
There was no wall. Barbed wire, yes. No wall.
The soldiers are ALREADY being paid, now out em to work.
This could be done today.
Ft Hood, Texas is the largest military base in the US and is in close proximity to the border.
But why stop with the Mexico border?
Both US borders, Mexico and Canada, as well as both coasts, Atlantic and Pacific, should be guarded by the US military's.
If the military's aren't doing this then what in the hell ARE they doing?

As with everything gov't, everything costs 80% more, and is 80% less efficient, and amounts to a net waste to the taxpayers.

Im not agreeing/disagreeing, but posse comitatus is an obstacle. We'd have to change a border violation from being a "law enforcement" issue to it being a military one.

One other thing that keeps nagging on me about walls, is that they can just as effectively keep people "in," as "out."

 

[2A_Tom]

One other thing that keeps nagging on me about walls, is that they can just as effectively keep people "in," as "out."

Yeah when Trump becomes Supreme Dictator of the US we will need the wall to keep the celebrities and you here.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yeah when Trump becomes Supreme Dictator of the US we will need the wall to keep the celebrities and you here.

"And you?" Isn't it redundant to say "celebrities and you?"

 

[2A_Tom]

You are a giant in your own mind.

 

[Kutnupe14]

You are a giant in your own mind.

....bestriding the narrow world like a colossus...

Kut (brushes shoulders off)

 

[mmpsteve]

....bestriding the narrow world like a colossus...

Kut (brushes shoulders off)

Do you Sir, by chance, partake of the Wild Turkey? Because I do, occasionally, and I'm starting to understand you. Don't know whether to rejoice, or be scared ... very ascared. (Still want to be part of your crew, though, cause you seem pretty cool)

.

.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Do you Sir, by chance, partake of the Wild Turkey? Because I do, occasionally, and I'm starting to understand you. Don't know whether to rejoice, or be scared ... very ascared. (Still want to be part of your crew, though, cause you seem pretty cool)

.

.

I do like some "Turkey" (RIP Great-Aunt Mary)... but I can only partake in moderation. That stuff is brutal.

 

[rGamble]

It is highly amusing to me that this "shutdown" just coincidentally happened during a time span when freakin nobody was at work anyway. Do any of you guys work in government? There is nobody at work this week. There was almost nobody at work last week. There will be almost nobody at work next week. I have coworkers sitting on such lavish hoards of PTO that they only come in for two full weeks a month, and they take off half the month of December and at least a week in January. Government barely functions this time of year because so many people are out of the office.

That is true. I took time off from the 26th(24th) to the 2nd. On the same foot however, come next week I will probably begin to worry. We have a single earner household, my wife is a stay at home mom with our two kids. My GS position pays the bills and affords us a little extra. I'd much rather not need to tap into my house savings to pay for my apartment that my paycheck covers. If you really want to be technical however, when the shutdown occurred all leave is to be cancelled. A furloughed employee can not take leave as the funding is frozen for those departments. The real issues in my opinion are those "critical" people being required to work without the promise of compensation while representatives still have their compensation promised to them.

 

[KG1]

One other thing that keeps nagging on me about walls, is that they can just as effectively keep people "in," as "out."

Oh you mean like a Berlin Wall?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Oh you mean like a Berlin Wall?

Yep.... a wall can be a double-edged sword, depending on how well one trusts their govt.

 

[BugI02]

The Democrats have offered him 10x the money he's currently asking for, to haveDACA protections, AFTER the president made an agreement to go along with it. Then the president went back on his promise. He could've gotten his wall, a restriction on future visas, and all sorts of things his base would've called a "win," if he had simply stuck to his word. I have no idea why he didn't go along with what was originally planned, because I think we all know that DACA kids aren't going anywhere. It's better to address them now, with the GOP in power, than get stuck (like we're seeing now) with a less attractive deal

I believe an end to chain migration and remodeling of the visa program to a points based national interest system (like Canada's) are the concepts that have eluded you

 

[BugI02]

The Democrats have offered him 10x the money he's currently asking for, to haveDACA protections, AFTER the president made an agreement to go along with it. Then the president went back on his promise. He could've gotten his wall, a restriction on future visas, and all sorts of things his base would've called a "win," if he had simply stuck to his word. I have no idea why he didn't go along with what was originally planned, because I think we all know that DACA kids aren't going anywhere. It's better to address them now, with the GOP in power, than get stuck (like we're seeing now) with a less attractive deal.

Maybe he can't be bought?

With apologies to Kyle Reese:

"Listen, and understand. That Trumpernator is out there. He can’t be bargained with. He can’t be reasoned with. He doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And he absolutely will. not. stop., ever, until you are defeated."

 

[GIJEW]

Im not agreeing/disagreeing, but posse comitatus is an obstacle. We'd have to change a border violation from being a "law enforcement" issue to it being a military one.

One other thing that keeps nagging on me about walls, is that they can just as effectively keep people "in," as "out."

Securing the border is about NATIONAL SECURITY, that's arguably not the same thing as domestic law enforcement.

 

[KG1]

I believe an end to chain migration and remodeling of the visa program to a points based national interest system (like Canada's) are the concepts that have eluded you

When the Democrats wouldn’t budge on that part they ultimately passed on DACA concessions altogether and Schumer rescinded the 25bil offer claiming Trump backed out of a tentative deal that was supposedly agreed to.

Trump’s response was something to the effect “No wall, No DACA” and they passed the massive omnibus bill that Trunp reluctantly signed without either one because of the military spending increase included in the bill.

That’s when he vowed to never again sign such a bill without funding for the wall which leads us to where we are presently.

 

[Snapdragon]

Lets look at it this way. Yes, stop the reasons they come here. But Kut is missing something. The benefits that are readily available to them. Automatic money once they learn the system. Also the cost to set up/fund/enhance such a task force. And if it is Gov. ran then no, it will have no teeth. There is waste in every direction.

I still say fix the problem; don't just plaster a $5,000,000,000 bandaid over it.

 

[mmpsteve]

I believe an end to chain migration and remodeling of the visa program to a points based national interest system (like Canada's) are the concepts that have eluded you

I still say fix the problem; don't just plaster a $5,000,000,000 bandaid over it.

Yes, fix all the problems addressed in post 214 ... and build a big, huge wall. 25 billion is a bigass bandaid. We're talking huuuuge. Oh, that's right. We're down to only 5 bil now. Well, it'll just be a bigly wall now.

Eta: didn't mean to multi-quote Bugl02, but his words are always worth reading twice.

.

 

[BugI02]

When the Democrats wouldn’t budge on that part they ultimately passed on DACA concessions alone and Schumer rescinded the 25bil offer claiming Trump backed out of a tentative deal that was supposedly agreed to.

Trump’s response was something to the effect “No wall, No DACA” and they passed the massive omnibus bill that Trunp reluctantly signed without either one because of the military spending increase included in the bill.

That’s when he vowed to never again sign such a bill without funding for the wall which leads us to where we are presently.

This gentleman knows his stuff

 

[ghitch75]

5 billion is a drop in the bucket.......BUILD THE WALL!!!!!!!!!!!!



New FAIR Study: Illegal Immigration Costs $116 billion Annually


http://www.irli.org/single-post/2017/09/27/New-FAIR-Study-Illegal-Immigration-Costs-116-billion-Annually?gclid=Cj0KCQiA6ozhBRC8ARIsAIh_VC2y94_dMpCbHdqOMIUq4u1M13B_OePNOXEn2-8qj2MJC7Z3Wcaqx4AaAkR0EALw_wcB​

 

[Trigger Time]

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Kutnupe14 again."

Politics aside, I think the wall is a big waste of money.

All (ok most) of the people I hear saying this have ZERO background in these types of complex security issues.
What I've seen from personal experience is that usually the guys downrange focused on the mission have a better handle on things than the beurocrats sitting in a comfy office with the goal of self promotion and wealth. In this case it's the Border Agents and they overwhealmingly say the new wall will help them and help our country
So I don't care what it costs get it built. If people are gonna ***** and moan about the costs of something that helps our country then they need to start cutting cost on all the BS we dont need. Time to start kicking in doors for student loan recovery too.

 

[BugI02]

All (ok most) of the people I hear saying this have ZERO background in these types of complex security issues.
What I've seen from personal experience is that usually the guys downrange focused on the mission have a better handle on things than the beurocrats sitting in a comfy office with the goal of self promotion and wealth. In this case it's the Border Agents and they overwhealmingly say the new wall will help them and help our country
So I don't care what it costs get it built. If people are gonna ***** and moan about the costs of something that helps our country then they need to start cutting cost on all the BS we dont need. Time to start kicking in doors for student loan recovery too.

I say we hire Russian hackers to just steal it from their financial accounts (for a 15% cut, of course). Really give them some collusion to complain about