Shut her down boys, shut her down.

[KG1]

So to all those that oppose a wall does that mean we should not have any physical barriers at all?

 

[GIJEW]

Now hold on there. You can say they need better computer programs if you want, but that not the same thing as needing better computer programmers. They need better goals. They need better integration of the set of goals across all the departments. If what you have in mind was not specified I would guarantee none of those things are on the feature list.

Agreed, I was being sarcastic

 

[thunderchicken]

Many good points being made. But what is to be done.

Can we all agree that something must be done. And if yes how to accomplish this.

With the caravan seeming to be the new way to attack and penetrate the boarder I think a barrier is the 1st step. But what kind. It will still need to be policed. How to accomplish that.

I keep hearing from so many that think a wall is a waste of time and money. I just have to disagree with that logic. Walls that are monitored and hardened from inside with multiple security measures will work to significantly reduce illegal immigration. Walls along with additional security measures keeps people in prisons (would work to keep people out too). But just as importantly are the security elements that go with it.
We also need to investigate using some kind of sensor technology to pick up on tunneling as that is already a way to smuggle all sorts into our country

 

[Kutnupe14]

So to all those that oppose a wall does that mean we should not have any physical barriers at all?

Stragetically placed barriers, absolutely. A wall along the entire border, nope. That's just dumb.
Even with DACA protections (and I'll remind $25B was originally offered) I'd still oppose a wall of the size the president wants.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I keep hearing from so many that think a wall is a waste of time and money. I just have to disagree with that logic. Walls that are monitored and hardened from inside with multiple security measures will work to significantly reduce illegal immigration. Walls along with additional security measures keeps people in prisons (would work to keep people out too). But just as importantly are the security elements that go with it.
We also need to investigate using some kind of sensor technology to pick up on tunneling as that is already a way to smuggle all sorts into our country

There's light years difference than the walls of a prison, and Trumps proposed wall. You think that the wall should be akin to those at a prison?

 

[KG1]

I agree with things like de-incentivizing and holding employers accountable for illegal hiring practices but to this date neither party has shown the political will to do so.

So I say build a damn proper barrier to stem the flow of all things illegal.

Then again that idea seems to lack a political will to do so as well.

At least more so by one particular party than the other in the case of a wall.

 

[2A_Tom]

I am for a medieval castle style wall with toilets. We could all visit and make contributions to border security.

​

The photo above shows a series of toilets (or garderobes) built into the town wall of Conwy, Wales. The town walls surround the town and connect it to the castle. These garderobes weren't for anyone, though. They were built especially for those who oversaw the castle and King Edward I's castle-building program in Wales. This is the only medieval town wall still in existence where so many garderobes can still be seen.​

​

 

[KG1]

Stragetically placed barriers, absolutely. A wall along the entire border, nope. That's just dumb.
Even with DACA protections (and I'll remind $25B was originally offered) I'd still oppose a wall of the size the president wants.

That’s what I’ve pretty much posted before. A properly built strategic wall.

I think Trump has even stated that there isn’t a need for a wall the length of the entire border.

 

[GIJEW]

What is the long term cost of more government employees to do border security, fly and maintain drones, track down and deport those caught.

Bigger government is the solution some seem to be proposing.

ETA: Also give the government more power to throw Americans in prison foe non violent crimes.

If your referring to my last post, the troops are already in whatever passes for a budget. Putting them on the border IMO isn't about increasing .gov spending but efficiently uses existing resources.

As for imprisoning people for non violent crimes, the point is valid. Any legislation making hiring illegals a crime with jail time should have to specify that the employer had good reason to believe that he was hiring an illegal alien. That's why I talked about jail for those in .gov who make it possible to have a market in bogus SS cards or issue driver's licenses to illegals. I'm talking about the likes of jerry brown and bill diblasio. That's why I said that talk about punishing employers of illegal aliens was about people in the .gov open-border-lobby deflecting blame and distracting attention from themselves because it's unreasonable and unjust to demand that the owner of 'mom&pop roofing&landscaping LLC' verify the validity of .gov documents. On the other hand, if "manuel labor" doesn't speak english but somehow has those documents, that's a different discussion. .gov could have something like NICS for employers to verify ss#'s too.

 

[mmpsteve]

Many good points being made. But what is to be done.

Can we all agree that something must be done. And if yes how to accomplish this.

With the caravan seeming to be the new way to attack and penetrate the boarder I think a barrier is the 1st step. But what kind. It will still need to be policed. How to accomplish that.

The barrier to illegal entry IS the first step, no matter what combination of systems you use to accomplish it. Stem the flow, then work out the other issues. We've spent much bigger monies on lessor goals, with full Dem support. Bridges to nowhere, sex habits of various lizards and skanks, Bigfoot, etc ... This drop-in-the-bucket border wall security expenditure might actually accomplish something; or we could send the same amount to Uganda, to fight child obesity; same/same? I don't think so. In this day of trillion dollar deficit spending, what do we have to lose? 25 billion? Oh, that's right, Trumps latest offer under 5 billion. What we have to lose is the 2020 White House, and we will if he doesn't get something done on this issue.

.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The barrier to illegal entry IS the first step, no matter what combination of systems you use to accomplish it. Stem the flow, then work out the other issues. We've spent much bigger monies on lessor goals, with full Dem support. Bridges to nowhere, sex habits of various lizards and skanks, Bigfoot, etc ... This drop-in-the-bucket border wall security expenditure might actually accomplish something; or we could send the same amount to Uganda, to fight child obesity; same/same? I don't think so. In this day of trillion dollar deficit spending, what do we have to lose? 25 billion? Oh, that's right, Trumps latest offer under 5 billion. What we have to lose is the 2020 White House, and we will if he doesn't get something done on this issue.

.

The Democrats have offered him 10x the money he's currently asking for, to haveDACA protections, AFTER the president made an agreement to go along with it. Then the president went back on his promise. He could've gotten his wall, a restriction on future visas, and all sorts of things his base would've called a "win," if he had simply stuck to his word. I have no idea why he didn't go along with what was originally planned, because I think we all know that DACA kids aren't going anywhere. It's better to address them now, with the GOP in power, than get stuck (like we're seeing now) with a less attractive deal.

 

[98cirrus]

The Great wall of China? The Iron curtain? The wall in Israel? The ocean around the British Isles. The chicken wire around a hen house? The auto-lock in my truck? The door to my gun safe? All are/were successful "Barriers" to make entry (or escape) more difficult. How could it be any more basic than that? What's the matter with peoples's logic, or have we been lying to ourselves, and been propagandized so much, that we can't see/or think, clearly. I agree, it would be wonderful also if we could effect change in all the places these people come from, but that is some really far-fetched utopian dream. It requires changes in every 3rd world country, all over the world. Is there any logic in that? Change all the 3rd World to solve our immigration problem? Well, we are working in the countries in the Americas, to try. How about people in this country, stop trying to encourage Illegal immigration, and we straighten out our laws that encourage it, and we make sure these non-citizens don't get to vote by sending their enablers to Jail. Well, I'm hoping my bank account doesn't go down this month too.

 

[Grelber]

https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall

it’s over 12 million now.

$50 of which used to be mine.

Considering the costs of illegal immigration, and being of the opinion that walls and the coast guard and the border patrols are very real and essential deterrents, I think the dream investment would be a fair value return on what you contribute toward wall funding. Never will happen obviously, but I think Potus is correct when he states that the wall would pay for itself several times every year.

A much more modest wish, I wish we had a tick-tock that would show when the cost of the shutdown exceeds the 1/800th (5B) of the funding bill in question. It is going to cost more not to build the wall than it would have cost to build it.

 

[Ark]

It is highly amusing to me that this "shutdown" just coincidentally happened during a time span when freakin nobody was at work anyway. Do any of you guys work in government? There is nobody at work this week. There was almost nobody at work last week. There will be almost nobody at work next week. I have coworkers sitting on such lavish hoards of PTO that they only come in for two full weeks a month, and they take off half the month of December and at least a week in January. Government barely functions this time of year because so many people are out of the office.

 

[98cirrus]

The Great wall of China? The Iron curtain? The wall in Israel? The ocean around the British Isles. The chicken wire around a hen house? The auto-lock in my truck? The door to my gun safe? All are/were successful "Barriers" to make entry (or escape) more difficult. How could it be any more basic than that? What's the matter with peoples's logic, or have we been lying to ourselves, and been propagandized so much, that we can't see/or think, clearly. I agree, it would be wonderful also if we could effect change in all the places these people come from, but that is some really far-fetched utopian dream. It requires changes in every 3rd world country, all over the world. Is there any logic in that? Change all the 3rd World to solve our immigration problem? Well, we are working in the countries in the Americas, to try. How about people in this country, stop trying to encourage Illegal immigration, and we straighten out our laws that encourage it, and we make sure these non-citizens don't get to vote by sending their enablers to Jail. Well, I'm hoping my bank account doesn't go down this month too.

 

[mmpsteve]

The Great wall of China? The Iron curtain? The wall in Israel? The ocean around the British Isles. The chicken wire around a hen house? The auto-lock in my truck? The door to my gun safe? All are/were successful "Barriers" to make entry (or escape) more difficult. How could it be any more basic than that? What's the matter with peoples's logic, or have we been lying to ourselves, and been propagandized so much, that we can't see/or think, clearly. I agree, it would be wonderful also if we could effect change in all the places these people come from, but that is some really far-fetched utopian dream. It requires changes in every 3rd world country, all over the world. Is there any logic in that? Change all the 3rd World to solve our immigration problem? Well, we are working in the countries in the Americas, to try. How about people in this country, stop trying to encourage Illegal immigration, and we straighten out our laws that encourage it, and we make sure these non-citizens don't get to vote by sending their enablers to Jail. Well, I'm hoping my bank account doesn't go down this month too.

Well said, sir. I concur. And welcome to INGO, where reality sometimes takes a back seat to ideology. My 30 something college educated son just informed me that we have a 'human' obligation to help these oppressed and persecuted individuals, no matter the cost. In this deficit spending age, I can't denounce him for not understanding the consequences. We've brought it upon ourselves, by allowing it.
.

 

[KG1]

The Democrats have offered him 10x the money he's currently asking for for DACA protections, AFTER the president made an agreement to go along with it. Then the president went back on his promise. He could've gotten his wall, a restriction future visas, and all sorts of things his bad would've called a "win," if he had simply stuck to his word. I have no idea why he didn't go along with what was originally planned, because I think we all know that DACA kids aren't going anywhere. It's better to address them now, with the GOP in power, than get stuck (like we're seeing now) with a less attractive deal.

It’s the “Art of the Deal” baby!

Have a 25bil offer rescinded by Chuck Schumer because the deal fell through only to have a 1.3bil offering at a later date.

 

[drbob93]

Different time, different circumstances. I guess you can skip it if you want to live under Sharia law. It would certainly reduce recidivism among criminals and reduce our need for prisons. Of course, you could lose your head for leaving it uncovered in public or drinking a beer! I am glad to have found a site where both the 1st and 2nd Amendments are adhered to.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Different time, different circumstances. I guess you can skip it if you want to live under Sharia law. It would certainly reduce recidivism among criminals and reduce our need for prisons. Of course, you could lose your head for leaving it uncovered in public or drinking a beer! I am glad to have found a site where both the 1st and 2nd Amendments are adhered to.

No one, not even a Mexican Muslim is touching my beer, without an invitation!

 

[drawer86]

Are people here wanting the gov't to spend even MORE money? Really?
A wall won't stop people from coming over it with ladders, remember Viet Nam?
A wall must be guarded by armed soldiers to be effective.
If armed soldiers are on the border then no wall is necessary.

When I was a US Army soldier I pulled guard on the East German border many times.
There was no wall. Barbed wire, yes. No wall.
The soldiers are ALREADY being paid, now out em to work.
This could be done today.
Ft Hood, Texas is the largest military base in the US and is in close proximity to the border.
But why stop with the Mexico border?
Both US borders, Mexico and Canada, as well as both coasts, Atlantic and Pacific, should be guarded by the US military's.
If the military's aren't doing this then what in the hell ARE they doing?

As with everything gov't, everything costs 80% more, and is 80% less efficient, and amounts to a net waste to the taxpayers.