Should We Deny Public Schooling to "Risky" Children?

[hornadylnl]

Still waiting.

The fact that they refuse to answer is telling.

 

[rambone]

Nope. Squelching individual freedom would be that you are not allowed to pursue your own version of happiness by, among other things, establishing a campaign to change the status quo or picking up and moving to some other place that better suits your sensibilities.

So you won't even admit that forced vaccinations are a violation of individual freedom?

Do you support the "individual mandate" in health insurance as well? If people don't like being forced around, they can just abandon their home and go live elsewhere.

The way the country was set up was to allow people to establish such things as public schools and compulsory education (withing the parameters set out by the constitution). Where we're going wrong is by impressing a single standard upon all the states; by eliminating the possibility to seek out change; trying new ways of governing ourselves.

States can make schools, sure. Voluntary schools. Compulsory participation and compulsory medical procedures are completely antithetical to liberty (i.e. the rights of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness).

All schools were voluntarily until 1852. Then individual rights were tossed aside and states began making schools compulsory, directly modeled after obedience-training found in the Prussian Empire. I think you will find this video very interesting.

[video=youtube;HZp7eVJNJuw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZp7eVJNJuw[/video]

 

[level.eleven]

The fact that they refuse to answer is telling.

There really isn't a point in engaging anarchists on the issue of public health. You aren't going to change your mind. A series of JAQoff questions will ensue. We won't get anywhere.

Folks that place absolute personal freedom above the safety of others - F you I got mine, It is my right to introduce disease into society, there is no such thing as a common good, etc. - simply have no understanding of the human condition. On this forum, their extreme distrust of authority clouds thinking to point of self destruction.

You are an alright guy, we can discuss the merits if you are actually intersted. It is pointless if it leads to JAQing off. For instance, no admittance to public schools if you aren't vaccinated. Rebuttal - ZOMG close all schools John Galt taxation theft!!!

ETA: And would you look at that. As soon as I hit reply in comes an anarchist with a ZOMG PRUSSIAN MODEL INDOCTRINATION CAMP!!!

 

[steveh_131]

There's been no discussion of anarchy here. Don't lie. You're not interested in a reasonable discussion, you're here to toss out some insults and run off like a little girl like always.

Waaaah Steve won't stop asking questions!

 

[hornadylnl]

There really isn't a point in engaging anarchists on the issue of public health. You aren't going to change your mind. A series of JAQoff questions will ensue. We won't get anywhere.

Folks that place absolute personal freedom above the safety of others - F you I got mine, It is my right to introduce disease into society, there is no such thing as a common good, etc. - simply have no understanding of the human condition. On this forum, their extreme distrust of authority clouds thinking to point of self destruction.

You are an alright guy, we can discuss the merits if you are actually intersted. It is pointless if it leads to JAQing off. For instance, no admittance to public schools if you aren't vaccinated. Rebuttal - ZOMG close all schools John Galt taxation theft!!!

ETA: And would you look at that. As soon as I hit reply in comes an anarchist with a ZOMG PRUSSIAN MODEL INDOCTRINATION CAMP!!!

Do you want to strap people down to a table and force vaccines on them at the barrel of a gun?

 

[level.eleven]

Why keep an anti-vax kid out of school? My kid would be vax'd so it wouldn't be an issue. Seems like a problem for ant-vax parents, who willingly let their kids go to school.

Why a few unvaccinated children are an even bigger threat than you think - The Washington Post

 

[level.eleven]

Do you want to strap people down to a table and force vaccines on them at the barrel of a gun?

Aaaaand we're JAQing off.

Have a good night.

 

[jamil]

This right here blows my mind. What other industry works this way? They have no accountability for the effectiveness of their product and no liability when it damages someone (and it does). The taxpayers get to cover the damages of any lawsuits.

I think I need to clarify. Effectively manufacturers are shielded from liability. But you can still sue. First you have to file a vaccine injury claim with the national vaccine injury compensation program, where 2 out of 3 claims are denied. If you are denied, you can sue the manufacturer. But if you're denied, fat chance of winning in court.

If your claim is approved you get whatever they give you. You can refuse the compensation and then sue the manufacturer. But you're taking a chance that you'll actually win in court, so most people would opt for taking what they can get to help compensate for lost wages, medical expenses and whatnot.

The money that pays compensation is funded by a tax on vaccines, so not every tax payer pays for the fund directly. However, the government is the largest buyer of vaccines, so tax payers do pay for that. In the end much of the money paid out for compensation does come from tax payers even if only indirectly.

So effectively you're right. Manufacturers have no real accountability to consumers for the quality (I like that word better than "effectiveness") of their product. And they have little actual liability when vaccines cause harm. And yes, they sometimes do cause harm, often enough that this system was put in place to compensate people for their loses, and to help shield manufacturers from liability.

 

[steveh_131]

Aaaaand we're JAQing off.

Have a good night.

Hah! Boom, off she goes. No questions allowed.

 

[hornadylnl]

Aaaaand we're JAQing off.

Have a good night.

Is that such a stretch? You've already said people should be jailed for speech.

 

[jamil]

Why a few unvaccinated children are an even bigger threat than you think - The Washington Post

Why fear mongers suck.
























Oh. Were you looking for a link? It seems obvious to me that fear mongers suck. No one needs a link to figure that out.

This thing is blown out of proportion by self-important wonks.

Some kids got measles! GASP! Run for your lives. Save the children. OMG! And many of those children were unvaccinated. Well technically some were infants and therefore not yet vaccinated for measles, but we'll include them in the numbers anyway to make it sound worse so that people will hate the [strike]crispy progressive tree hugging moms[/strike] right wing crazy ass *****es more.

 

[jamil]

Is that such a stretch? You've already said people should be jailed for speech.

Hey, the politburo has spoken. What can you possibly say?

 

[hornadylnl]

Hey, the politburo has spoken. What can you possibly say?

One extreme is no better/worse than the other. I'd rather take my chances getting a communicable disease than giving the government the power to force vaccines on the people.

 

[hornadylnl]

I love the histrionics of the anti vaxers having blood on their hands while the pro vaxers get to absolve themselves of any and all responsibility of those harmed by vaccines.

I'm not really pro or con on vaccines. I've had many. My daughter has had about all there is to get. But I won't let her get the guardasil vac. I don't think the risk is worth it. The fact that someone would hold me at the barrel of a gun and force it on my daughter?

 

[rambone]

ETA: And would you look at that. As soon as I hit reply in comes an anarchist with a ZOMG PRUSSIAN MODEL INDOCTRINATION CAMP!!!

Come on, its historical fact. Are you representing the hysterical anti-history crowd? lol

no admittance to public schools if you aren't vaccinated.

Why not extend the mandates to all of public life? The parks, the playgrounds, even the sidewalk? Any space that is shared by the public, no exemptions. Its all backed by the exact same logic.

 

[Southbendfamily]

.

 

[Kutnupe14]

This right here blows my mind. What other industry works this way? They have no accountability for the effectiveness of their product and no liability when it damages someone (and it does). The taxpayers get to cover the damages of any lawsuits.

And Reagan signed that craziness into law...National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (1986)

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

So you won't even admit that forced vaccinations are a violation of individual freedom?

I don't even admit they're manadory.

 

[RockofStrength]

ETA: And would you look at that. As soon as I hit reply in comes an anarchist with a ZOMG PRUSSIAN MODEL INDOCTRINATION CAMP!!!

Uh...the first compulsory public schools were setup specifically to ensure that the incoming children of the Catholic immigrants would be properly educated in order to make them uniformly Protestant. If an educational system designed to ensure that children are trained away from the religion of their parents towards whatever society deems better isn't an indoctrination camp, please tell me what is?

 

[jamil]

One extreme is no better/worse than the other. I'd rather take my chances getting a communicable disease than giving the government the power to force vaccines on the people.

We might have better vaccinated rates if they weren't so pissy about it. Few Western countries mandate them. And most have better rates than we do. But when you start using strong-arm tactics, bullying, try to hide real cases of adverse reactions from the public, etcetera, it has the effect of causing some people to raise their middle fingers in rebellion.

To level.eleven, snark doesn't make people WANT to do it. Maybe you think that ridiculing people who are skeptical about vaccines will show the rest of the public how evil they are. But it just divides people more and makes even more people inclined to say **** YOU. To vaccines.

And Reagan signed that craziness into law...National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (1986)

Yep. The manufacturers lobbied hard for it. Said they'd be out of business within a few years because of all the litigation, and then no one would be immunized. So now manufactures have the perfect product. One that is mostly mandated and paid for by the government, and one that they they can make without fear of liability.

I don't even admit they're manadory.

They're trying their best to make this into the crisis that changes that.