Shotgun for HD misconception

[nimrodder]

You should aim for center of mass and not the head. You'll be more likely to hit the bigger target in a stressful fight than the smaller target. That's what police departments and the military teach but yeah a face full of #6 will probably stop the fight.

 

[45fan]

Our son sleeps behind our room, basically 180 degrees from any threat that would be in the house. 3" magnum 00 buck for those that feel froggy enough to step into my home uninvited.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Here you go. Just shot. Ive seen this in person so I didnt doubt anyway.

Out of curiosity, why a break-action 2-round shotgun for HD instead of a higher tube capacity?

 

[Rookie]

Simplicity. Pull the trigger and it goes bang. Same reason people recommend revolvers to first timers.

 

[whocares]

Ease of operation

Out of curiosity, why a break-action 2-round shotgun for HD instead of a higher tube capacity?

Ease of operation and the ability to squeeze off two 12 gauge rounds simultaneously with dual triggers. Thanks to our very own Ichokepeople I am the proud owner of a converted Saiga 12 19" barrel. I have a 20 round drum I run through this Saiga all the time and I enjoy shooting 3" magnum 00buck and rifled slugs through the gun. The Saiga makes shooting the heavy loads a breeze and it truly is a device of destruction. Why the side by side and not the Saiga? Ease of use under extreme high pressure and the stopping power of two 12gauge rounds shot at one time. If I were to be injured or killed I have a much greater chance that my wife or one of my older two children could pick up the side by side and protect themselves in my absence. I know there are too many variables which would make a pump action or semi auto useless to my wife or kids in a high stress scenario. The side by side can be reloaded in 10 seconds tops by someone with only a basic understanding of how to operate. I can unload spent shells and reload new in less than 5 seconds, but I work with the gun often. If the pump action were to be short stroked its worthless to them or if the Saiga should somehow jam, unlikely but its unlikely I will have a home invasion occur, but if it did jam up my wife nor kids could calmly fix the problem and continue to engage. Not yet at least. The side by side is the most fool proof option.

 

[tv1217]

I don't have to worry much about penetration in this house. Anything I'm gonna shoot will either have the brick chimney running through the wall behind them, or at the bottom of the stairs, in which case any strays will hit the floor and go into the basement. The only thing to kill down there is some boxes of crap, a vent, and maybe the freezer.

 

[Slow Hand]

Bird shot is for birds. You NEED penetration for incapacitating wounds. Just because birdshot makes a big solid hole in cardboard or plywood does not mean it hits like a slug. Each individual pellet has very little momentum; that means no penetration in a bad guy. As has been said, you can't have penetration in a bad guy but not in drywall.

Use what you want but I'm sticking with 2 3/4" OO Buck in my 870. I've patterned it at HD ranges with various loads have the rifle sights zeroed. At bedroom distances it holds about a four inch pattern.

Yes the SxS is simple to operate; for two shots, maybe. I've seen people fumble in the hunting field with two triggers. Shooting doves is much less stressful than shooting a druggie at 3:00 am in your bedroom. Then after the two shots there is the painfully slow process of reloading two more rounds. I shot CAS for several years and can reload a couple of rounds pretty quick, but that is in the middle of the day, wearing rounds easily accessible on a belt. You don't have such luxuries in the middle of the night.

My advice; dump the double gun, go pattern your saiga with some OO buck at five yards. Keep it with a five round mag and an empty chamber. If needed, all you have to do is rack the bolt handle and you've got five uninterrupted rounds. If you aren't awake enough to pull the bolt handle back you aren't awake enough to decide if you need to shoot someone or not.

 

[shooter521]

I'm sure if you shoot a thug in the face with #6, he will go down

Unless he's Dick Cheney's hunting buddy.

 

[Merrixs]

A #6 shot at 8 yards through a typical 18.5" barrel is still so tight a pattern that it will deliver a slug sized hole to a body, but is much less likely to hold that pattern through walls.

I did see the pics down from the quoted post, but if you want #6 shot to make a slug size hole you need to use a turkey choke at about 5-7 yards. In that scenario you might be ok because all the little pellets will help push each other, but the minute they start to spread like they did in the photo they are on their own. You don't have to use large buckshot, but I would not limit the size under 4BK. I personally have 3" #4 buck loaded with 00 buck at the ready.
On another note, maybe a different emergency plan will limit the amount of times loved ones are in the possible line of fire.
Please don't take any offense, thats just my 2 cents.

 

[gunman41mag]

I did see the pics down from the quoted post, but if you want #6 shot to make a slug size hole you need to use a turkey choke at about 5-7 yards. In that scenario you might be ok because all the little pellets will help push each other, but the minute they start to spread like they did in the photo they are on their own. You don't have to use large buckshot, but I would not limit the size under 4BK. I personally have 3" #4 buck loaded with 00 buck at the ready.
On another note, maybe a different emergency plan will limit the amount of times loved ones are in the possible line of fire.
Please don't take any offense, thats just my 2 cents.

Or you can do a cut shell to the #6

 

[Cat-Herder]

This is why I use slugs in mine, I at least only have to deal with 1 projectile as opposed to 9,12 or more.

This. And I use a 20ga instead of a 12, that way everyone in the house can use it if they need to. Not many attackers are going to notice the difference between a 12ga and a 20ga slug.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

In my useless opinion, birdshot does not penetrate deep enough to be considered a "consistent man stopper".

It will blast holes in particle board at that range - but it is far from proven to reach the vital organs of a large sized human through clothes, muscle, and bone.

With very few exceptions, if it is going to penetrate deep enough to consistently stop a large human, it is going to penetrate walls.

I have never shot a human with birdshot - so feel free to use what you decide to for your own reasons. That being said, bird shot is designed to bring down little birds.

 

[gunman41mag]

In my useless opinion, birdshot does not penetrate deep enough to be considered a "consistent man stopper".

It will blast holes in particle board at that range - but it is far from proven to reach the vital organs of a large sized human through clothes, muscle, and bone.

With very few exceptions, if it is going to penetrate deep enough to consistently stop a large human, it is going to penetrate walls.

I have never shot a human with birdshot - so feel free to use what you decide to for your own reasons. That being said, bird shot is designed to bring down little birds.

So your saying that if a man get shot in the face & throat with #6 or #4 he's not even going to stop to spit out all the shots that went into his nose & throat

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

So your saying that if a man get shot in the face & throat with #6 or #4 he's not even going to stop to spit out all the shots that went into his nose & throat

If a man gets shot in the face or throat with a .22, it is going to do damage.

I would still not consider a .22 a strong self defense round.

I would honestly choose a .380 over #6 birdshot...

Actually, in close quarters - I would choose a combat knife over #6 birdshot...

 

[gunman41mag]

If a man gets shot in the face or throat with a .22, it is going to do damage.

I would still not consider a .22 a strong self defense round.

I would honestly choose a .380 over #6 birdshot...

Actually, in close quarters - I would choose a combat knife over #6 birdshot...

Police use non-lethal rubber shot to stop people, so i'm sure the #6 will stop the threat I rather have a shotgun with #6, cause it will have more stopping power than a 380 acp

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

Police use non-lethal rubber shot to stop people, so i'm sure the #6 will stop the threat

How many police officers do you think use non-lethal rubber shot in their home defense shotgun?

Non lethal rubber shot is used in very limited situations where lethal force is deemed inappropriate.

I rather have a shotgun with #6, cause it will have more stopping power than a 380 acp

.380 has been proven to meet at least the FBI penetration standards - #6 has not....

What data can you yield to show that #6 birdshot has more stopping power than a .380?

 

[gunman41mag]

How many police officers do you think use non-lethal rubber shot in their home defense shotgun?

Non lethal rubber shot is used in very limited situations where lethal force is deemed inappropriate.



.380 has been proven to meet at least the FBI penetration standards - #6 has not....

What data can you yield to show that #6 birdshot has more stopping power than a .380?

Scroll down to 12 GAUGE Ammunition For The Self-Defense Firearm

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

Scroll down to 12 GAUGE Ammunition For The Self-Defense Firearm

The first line under shotgun: "Use buckshot. Slugs and birdshot are useful in some limited and uncommon situations."

The concept that "birdshot is virtually a solid column of lead", however, is incorrect.

Birdshot is comprised of many very small projectiles. Every projectile has X weight, and is traveling at Y velocity. Each projectile will be capable of penetrating so far into a target - as it deforms, expending energy, it slows down even more.

The fact that many projectiles are flying in close proximity at the same time does not increase the penetration of any single projectile. It sounds good when you say it - but in reality that is not how physics works.

One good example that demonstrates this is the wide array of ballistic gelatin and other material penetration tests that have been conducted over the years.

A solid column of lead would penetrate like a solid column of lead... a cluster of very small projectiles will penetrate like a cluster of very small projectiles.

 

[Hookeye]

 

[Hookeye]

I have a #4 3" mag turkey load and the rest the low recoil slugs.
The way my house is setup, zones of fire are all away from bedrooms.
870 Supermag turkey model, 23" VR bbl with Imp Cyl Remchoke.