Right, they have to have employees watch everything, and have insurance to cover the worst. The chose to charge non members a fee. No biggie…
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Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
Shoot point blank
- Thread starter Johwar
- Start date
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Ah, I see. Yeah I have paid that twice since I started shooting there with a couple friends. I really didn't know it was specifically for the Hold Harmless. I just figured it was some kind of revenue generation charge to keep me in their system.
I get it. People have certain principles they hold to. I won't buy anything made by Patagonia.
It is not a secret charge. It is posted on their website. What principal was violated?
First and foremost, join an outdoor club. Even if you have to drive a ways. Second, frequent Tims in Westfield or other locally owned ranges for your indoor range. Third, don’t put up with substandard service. Too many death merchants now that are making money off of captive customers but not true to the gun owner.
When have we, as a society, ever been so close to Socialism? Remember when the owners of the business felt obligated to the experience of the customer? Remember dress codes? When has the worker ever had as much power as they have now? Do you remember 'the customer is always right'?
The workers today have been fed a solid diet of "you are worth more than the owner because you do all the work". This is and has always been BS. They act as if owners are bleeding their employees as if they were slaves, they aren't. They come to work for a wage and as long as they are getting paid anything else beyond that is a perk.
The person with the most skin in the game deserves the higher payout. If the owner of a business does not realize their success depends on the customers experience they won't be in business long. If the employees don't treat people with respect they will loose the business for the employer.
There is an old saying, you can shear a sheep many times but you can only skin them once. This owner obviously felt a small fee now is worth more than all future fees added together. This is why signs that say, 'under new management' carry so much weight...
The workers today have been fed a solid diet of "you are worth more than the owner because you do all the work". This is and has always been BS. They act as if owners are bleeding their employees as if they were slaves, they aren't. They come to work for a wage and as long as they are getting paid anything else beyond that is a perk.
The person with the most skin in the game deserves the higher payout. If the owner of a business does not realize their success depends on the customers experience they won't be in business long. If the employees don't treat people with respect they will loose the business for the employer.
There is an old saying, you can shear a sheep many times but you can only skin them once. This owner obviously felt a small fee now is worth more than all future fees added together. This is why signs that say, 'under new management' carry so much weight...
I know we all have an opinion. Some have skin in the game.
Now lets all take a deep breath and ease off the throttles OK. I mean everyone.
I think it's good when customers relay their personal customer service experiences. Accepting crappy customer service just because said business caters to our chosen hobby is very short sighted. When employees/management/owners are made fully aware that their attitudes and or policies are costing them sales, they should feel motivated to change or improve.
For the time being, due to more than one INGO member having negative experiences with their attitudes and policies....I know where I will not be patronizing.
Maybe instead of an obviously biased argument, those with "skin in the game" should relay these negative experiences back to management. That's what I'd do.
For the time being, due to more than one INGO member having negative experiences with their attitudes and policies....I know where I will not be patronizing.
Maybe instead of an obviously biased argument, those with "skin in the game" should relay these negative experiences back to management. That's what I'd do.
Nope... every time you go to Kroger they hit you with a surcharge for using a credit card - even when you pay with cash.
Every business needs to figure out how to stay in business, and make the business worth doing for those that own/run it. The business wasn't started for "us", but it's providing something for "us" that gets "them" what they want (or doesn't). They have a model, and if it's working for them, they will keep doing it. If not, not.
It's been my experience both as a consumer and a business owner, that seemingly similar businesses carve up how they charge/what they charge for in different ways, but it all washes out in the end. Free installation, 2 years same as cash, kids eat free, no charge for the "hold harmless waiver"... it all gets bundled into the deal somehow. If the deal sucks, move on. I'm always open to a better package deal when I can find it.
I like to shoot. I've never met a public range that I liked much. Unfortunately, I can't have my own private range, and usually cant carve out the time for the conservation club (drive 1.5 hrs round trip, set up, take down, etc.). I like to shoot just a little more than I hate ranges like SPB, so here I am. If a few more "problems" at SPB tip the scale, then there I'll be - with clean guns, ammo in the locker, money in my pocket, and a frown on my face.
Who needs enemies to blow up the gun cause? Our own will do it for them.You're not alone in your opinions, @Johwar. I'm glad SPB is an option for folks ... it's just definitely not even close to the best option. And what's a gun forum good for if not voicing our opinions on gun stuff??
Now mention something bad about the NRA and watch someone's head really blow up...
littletommy
Grandmaster
I used to work at a range, we didn’t charge people for the privilege of signing a release form. That being said, I have been to a few ranges that DID charge a very small fee for new customers. I never saw it as a big deal. We kept track of our release forms, and on a few occasions, we actually needed to pull the form for whatever reason. There was some time involved at the end of each day for filing the days paperwork, and of course, time involved in finding the paperwork when we needed it. So I can kinda sorta understand a business charging a nominal fee for the paperwork.
Either way, if it was a range I wanted to shoot at, and had taken the time to do that, I wouldn’t let a small fee keep me from doing so, as long as the employees and management of that range were pleasant and helpful.
I can’t give you an opinion of SPB because I have never been in one, but what I have heard personally, and what has been posted on INGO about the attitudes there, I wouldn’t bother ever walking in one.
Either way, if it was a range I wanted to shoot at, and had taken the time to do that, I wouldn’t let a small fee keep me from doing so, as long as the employees and management of that range were pleasant and helpful.
I can’t give you an opinion of SPB because I have never been in one, but what I have heard personally, and what has been posted on INGO about the attitudes there, I wouldn’t bother ever walking in one.
Making my living as commission only for 45 years and running two successful businesses on the side where I had to make all customers happy made for a great education in understanding what it takes.
I can just see the hard working restaurant owner that had a dream and the reality is that there is a huge disconnect between corporate and the lazy mumbling introvert that he hires to run his business in the ground. Think McDonalds. Very strong business plan. Very weak execution. Theft, lazieness, employees that are scared to be helpful and kind, wrong orders, dirty glass, trash cans running over full of flies, unable to make change or think on their feet, lack of power washing the pavement each early morning to clean up the syrup left by spilled cokes, no ketchup or napkins, terrible restrooms, and poor management that changes more often than our mandates.
This is so common today as our employee base seeks jobs behind a computer where less interaction is required for a successful paycheck. I know this is my opinion but it seems more and more a reality of a different work ethic.
True, the real blame is with the owner who allows this behavior and in a perfect world he is rewarded or fined with good or bad business results. But here in lies the bad part, this has been socially accepted and many business still survive because the people allow it. Sheep I tell you.
A difference cannot be made until the people respond differently to mediocrity or worse. Try calling your cable company. Try getting your cell phone bill figured out. Customer service wants you to chat your issues away cause they have no talent to answer the phone.
As Sonny and Cher says…The Beat Goes On….
And I for one have noticed a not so productive of a rhythm.
See you on the range…
Trapper
I can just see the hard working restaurant owner that had a dream and the reality is that there is a huge disconnect between corporate and the lazy mumbling introvert that he hires to run his business in the ground. Think McDonalds. Very strong business plan. Very weak execution. Theft, lazieness, employees that are scared to be helpful and kind, wrong orders, dirty glass, trash cans running over full of flies, unable to make change or think on their feet, lack of power washing the pavement each early morning to clean up the syrup left by spilled cokes, no ketchup or napkins, terrible restrooms, and poor management that changes more often than our mandates.
This is so common today as our employee base seeks jobs behind a computer where less interaction is required for a successful paycheck. I know this is my opinion but it seems more and more a reality of a different work ethic.
True, the real blame is with the owner who allows this behavior and in a perfect world he is rewarded or fined with good or bad business results. But here in lies the bad part, this has been socially accepted and many business still survive because the people allow it. Sheep I tell you.
A difference cannot be made until the people respond differently to mediocrity or worse. Try calling your cable company. Try getting your cell phone bill figured out. Customer service wants you to chat your issues away cause they have no talent to answer the phone.
As Sonny and Cher says…The Beat Goes On….
And I for one have noticed a not so productive of a rhythm.
See you on the range…
Trapper
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Who knows, it is in the total fee, so who cares? Should SPB just raise daily range fees $5 a day rather than a once a year fee of $5?
At a big shooting range in the expensive city we have a whole thread over a $5 charge?
Johnny Chimpo Shooter
Shooter
He's free to highlight ****** business practices that he finds objectionable.
I also don't know who do you think you are to **** on a member here for that.
He is free to do so, it is just not a smart move to blast a business that puts ranges in cities so more have access to shoot than just rural gun owners over $5.
I am equally free to highlight how it damages those that support shooting sports…
Johnny Chimpo Shooter
Shooter
You sure do like strawman arguments.......
Can't debate the topic on its merits, create a strawman.
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Johnny Chimpo Shooter
Shooter
1. I don't recall anyone granting you the sole knowledge of what is or isn't a smart move.
2. Shoot Point Blank doesn't support the shooting sports. When was the last time they held an IDPA match? A USPSA match? A GSSF match? ANY sport shooting event? They don't even allow you to work on the basics you need for sport or self defense with a handgun, like drawing, target transitions, or rapid fire.
They, like almost all indoor ranges, are exclusively a revenue generator for the owner (not that I object to that in principle). What they are NOT are a supporter of the shooting sports or the right to keep and bear arms. At least not until they actually DO something more than putting up Grunt Style and Black Rifle Coffee posters on the wall.
No it did not. I posted about it in one of the linked threads. When the salesman asked for my ID, I asked him why? He stated that their policy is to scan a government ID for all transactions. As he was saying this, I was holding a $10 bill in my hand for a $6 transaction. His smug attitude pissed me off and I firmly replied "Nope", left the item on the counter and walked out.
For those who grumble that we are hurting a local firearms retailer, I say screw them and their intrusive policies. Too many decent gun shops around that I will give my business to, before those pissy barfmats.
Ok, I’ll put you down as ok with bashing those that provide goods and services for our sport. Call me silly if you want but I think more is better so folks can choose. Those in cities have far fewer options as to where they can shoot and bashing those few options over a $5 charge is not smart.
They support those that shoot, often called shooting sports, nothing implied of organized vs private shooting sports.
