True, but I was mostly commenting on posts 30, 34, and 36 which (to me)seemed to imply that the perceived attitude of LEO's towards civilians was the issue. I was heading towards the idea that the situation is what the situation is and would not be changed by whether or not the OP was a LEO. As it turns out, he's not. Personally, I feel that being considered a "sheepdog" by others would be a high compliment. You can call me "Loretta" as long as I'm able to effectively protect my family and myself.
No, I don't have a womb.
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So if you're a troll, you think your job is to "be an", and by posting nonsense and
, you're implying that you'd rather have everyone think you're just on the board to stir up
so that the members won't have to take what you say seriously? Is this right?
On the other hand, if you're just uninformed and you asked sincere questions in this forum, I think you'll find this is a nice place.
As someone who knows nothing about the topics of the lawful use of firearms and personal self-defense, I'd like to ask, "What will an armed civilian do if there was an abusive customer there, or if a domestic fight broke out between a couple, or if someone ran out on their tab?" Because I seem to have personal character defects that I like to project onto others, I'd be tempted to acted like a "zero" and draw my gun, even when it wasn't legal to do so, and shoot people.
Just who do I think I am "trolling" a gun forum, and by the way, did these people on
If Harried hadn't taken the beat down like he did following his post, I probably wouldn't have bothered posting anything. But when I saw the sentiment that I shared get pounded here, I decided to throw in my
Do I agree with everything he said and how he said it? No. And I am not on here often enough to know who is banned and who is trolling, yadda yadda. It did seem more than a little odd for someones 2nd post to be like his was.
The "sheep were well shepherded" line rubbed me a little the wrong way, that is all.
If you want to get down to brass tacks, yes, I feel that this nation is slowly becoming more and more of a police state. When I see two girls get beat down for something as stupid jaywalking by a nincompoop of a LEO, or a family has their house broken into in the middle of the night and their dog shot over for an ounce of weed, or a seven year old girl is murdered when the police make a clusterfark of an entry looking for someone else etc. etc. etc. I get my hackles up.
Am I a LEO hater? No. My wife's life was very likely saved by some very fast acting officers not too long ago. Through her and her work I've met some class act LEO's. That fact does not dissuade me from my belief that the citizens of this country are gradually being put under the thumb of the militarized government and law enforcement agencies. That is for another post, I suppose, so I'll try to stick to this thread topic.
When I read about how all the gun-toters and LEO in the restaurant are gonna keep the sheep safe, it bugged me. It reinforced my belief, and I am fairly certain the belief of others, that many LEO and their ilk see themselves as existing on a different strata than the rest of us mere citizens.
It wasnt just the terms you used. Hell I have probably used the term sheeple before. It was the context in which it was used.
Someone else asked in this thread if I would have had a problem if the same comment had been made without the reference to LEO. That is a good question and has given me pause. I would have to say that I probably would not have felt the need to respond in the same way. I would have chalked it up to another post similar to "Guess where I OC'ed today" or "Another boring interaction with the PD" thread. The fact is that this post did have the LEO factor in and as such I dont believe it should be glossed over.
If a "sheep and shepherd" mindset exists, (and the OP has only strengthened my belief that it does) it is important to be aware of that and talk about it.
Let us not forget that "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" and that having a gun or a badge or a license plate with a blue stripe doesnt give anyone else any more rights than me and I will not succumb to being shepherded by them.
If Harried hadn't taken the beat down like he did following his post, I probably wouldn't have bothered posting anything. But when I saw the sentiment that I shared get pounded here, I decided to throw in my
Do I agree with everything he said and how he said it? No. And I am not on here often enough to know who is banned and who is trolling, yadda yadda. It did seem more than a little odd for someones 2nd post to be like his was.
The "sheep were well shepherded" line rubbed me a little the wrong way, that is all.
While this may have rubbed you personally the wrong way, it doesn't make it inaccurate or disrespectful, remember a lot of our own personal feelings go into forming our perceptions of the facts around us.
If you want to get down to brass tacks, yes, I feel that this nation is slowly becoming more and more of a police state. When I see two girls get beat down for something as stupid jaywalking by a nincompoop of a LEO
Both of the females you're referring to defied a lawful order that was put in place because of the 125+ pedestrians who had been struck by vehicles in that area and then proceeded to resist arrest. If a LEO tells me to stop and put my hands behind my back, I'm going to stop and put my hands behind my back regardless of whether or not I feel like I "DESERVE" to be detained. Also the second those girls started resisting detention they entered into a whole new level of the force continuum and to be frank I feel the office *for the most part* showed great restraint and attempted to subdue the subject(s) without really hurting them. This is all in addition to the verbal abuse that the LEO endured from both suspects as well as the crowd.
or a family has their house broken into in the middle of the night and their dog shot over for an ounce of weed, or a seven year old girl is murdered when the police make a clusterfark of an entry looking for someone else etc. etc. etc. I get my hackles up.
I've only briefly heard about these stories and I can say that the 7yr. olds loss of life is a true tragedy. I will comment to the fact that 1oz of MJ is enough for intent to distribute which is a felony and drug dealers often use trained attack dogs as guard dogs and I don't think that the LEO's in that scenario did anything wrong if they were being attacked (As I am under the impression they were, feel free to correct me and link the report/article if I'm wrong).
Am I a LEO hater? No. My wife's life was very likely saved by some very fast acting officers not too long ago. Through her and her work I've met some class act LEO's. That fact does not dissuade me from my belief that the citizens of this country are gradually being put under the thumb of the militarized government and law enforcement agencies. That is for another post, I suppose, so I'll try to stick to this thread topic.
When I read about how all the gun-toters and LEO in the restaurant are gonna keep the sheep safe, it bugged me. It reinforced my belief, and I am fairly certain the belief of others, that many LEO and their ilk see themselves as existing on a different strata than the rest of us mere citizens.
Again I would say that since LEO are held responsible for the safety of those around them, even when off duty, that they do need to reside on a different "Strata" of alertness and preparedness than civilians. (To use your verbage)
It wasnt just the terms you used. Hell I have probably used the term sheeple before. It was the context in which it was used.
Someone else asked in this thread if I would have had a problem if the same comment had been made without the reference to LEO. That is a good question and has given me pause. I would have to say that I probably would not have felt the need to respond in the same way. I would have chalked it up to another post similar to "Guess where I OC'ed today" or "Another boring interaction with the PD" thread. The fact is that this post did have the LEO factor in and as such I dont believe it should be glossed over.
If a "sheep and shepherd" mindset exists, (and the OP has only strengthened my belief that it does) it is important to be aware of that and talk about it.
I agree that it is important to be aware of this situation because sheepdogs have accepted a higher level of responsibility than your average citizen and when the SHTF the sheepdog (whether it be LEO or Armed responsible Civi's) needs to take into account not only the sheep mentality pertaining to sheepdogs (who are constantly resesnted) but the fact that they have a responsibility to protect the sheep and not leave them to be preyed upon by the wolves.
Let us not forget that "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" and that having a gun or a badge or a license plate with a blue stripe doesnt give anyone else any more rights than me.
While all men are created equal, they do not remain equal depending on their choices in life. Would you consider the mass murderer as an equal? I sir do not. Certain men and women have chosen paths in their lives that lead them to greater responsibility (generally Military, LEO, Medical professionals, Firemen/women) than your average civilian. These people sacrifice the luxury that most civilians enjoy of the costs of "Freedom and Safety". Please do not forget that many soldiers, fire, medical and LEO have lost and spilt blood for your ability to walk down the street obliviously yammering on your cellphones while sipping latte's and blasting .mp3's through your iPods. If you don't think these people operate on another level of social responsibility then I think we're done debating and we're going to have to agree to disagree.
I will not succumb to being shepherded by them
I personally don't really care for the term "shepherd" in regards to LEO and the responsibly armed civilians. However, that doesn't mean that your average civilians who are targeted every single day all day and night long (unless you care to argue that crimes don't happen vs. innocent civilians) have the same amount of social responsibility on their shoulders as the sheepdogs.
Careful that your resistance to duly appointed authority (LEO's) doesn't begin to send you on the path of the wolf just to spite anyone who may view you as a "Sheep". If you dislike being potentially referred to as a Sheep so much, assume the responsibility of becoming a "Sheepdog" for a few years covering more than your own backside and get back to us on how you feel on the subject.
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