Sen. Joe Donnelly, D-Ind. 2018...

[Leadeye]

Voted two weeks ago, wish there was a code that you received when you voted that turned off the noise now that it's irrelevant.

 

[jamil]

Assuming Braun wins, man I hope we're not wishing for a primary opponent against him in a few years. I have this sneaking suspicion about him.

It's not sneaking. It's for realz. I don't like Braun. But he's not from the party of insane social justice.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

I'm old fashioned.
Only voting on the regular day.
Who knows? I may regret it tomorrow.

this…the wife and I both takes one of the kids with us.We are manufacturing a couple good little conservatives.

 

[jamil]

Carmelites are trapped in by the roundabouts...

Heck, Carmelians are the only ones that know how to escape them!

I like roundabouts. There. I said it.

They're a more sensible way to navigate road intersections than traffic signals. The biggest problems 1) people need a higher spacial IQ to "get" them than traditional traffic signal intersections. 2) They take up more space. 3) They're considerably more expensive.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I like roundabouts. There. I said it.

They're a more sensible way to navigate road intersections than traffic signals. The biggest problems 1) people need a higher spacial IQ to "get" them than traditional traffic signal intersections. 2) They take up more space. 3) They're considerably more expensive.

Hey! Whoa! Whoa! Whoooaaa! They told us, when they proposed doing one in Bedford rather than a stop light, they were much cheaper.

 

[KMaC]

Hey! Whoa! Whoa! Whoooaaa! They told us, when they proposed doing one in Bedford rather than a stop light, they were much cheaper.

Depends on the cost of the adjoining land. Roundabouts require more land but save on the cost of signals, sensors and control boxes.
And if you build them like Carmel with fountains, statues and topiary shrubbery, yeah they can get pricey.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Depends on the cost of the adjoining land. Roundabouts require more land but save on the cost of signals, sensors and control boxes.
And if you build them like Carmel with fountains, statues and topiary shrubbery, yeah they can get pricey.

Even if you have to do months of utility and sewer relocation work? Oh I know what they really mean...when they say they're cheaper, they're talking about the lifetime costs and the cost savings in fuel by not having to stop and idle. But for the one they did at the JWB interesection in Bedford, I simply don't believe it was cheaper than a couple of stop lights--installation costs.

 

[actaeon277]

Anytime someone brings up a costs analysis, you need to dig to find out some things.
For instance, what is the person doing the analysis trying to prove.
What is in, or even excluded from, the study.
Are they using all the maximum costs for one side, but all the minimum costs for the other side.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

Anytime someone brings up a costs analysis, you need to dig to find out some things.
For instance, what is the person doing the analysis trying to prove.
What is in, or even excluded from, the study.
Are they using all the maximum costs for one side, but all the minimum costs for the other side.

Sounds like you are on the negoiating committee?

 

[jamil]

Hey! Whoa! Whoa! Whoooaaa! They told us, when they proposed doing one in Bedford rather than a stop light, they were much cheaper.

Well, the only thing that would be cheaper about a roundabout is long-term maintenance. With traffic signals you have the recurring cost of power consumption and hardware/power line upkeep. The upkeep with roundabouts is essentially grounds keeping, patching potholes, etcetera.

Here's the kicker. The installation cost for an existing traffic light is zero, since it's already in service. The cost of a roundabout can reach into the millions, especially if additional land has to be acquired, since they take up a lot more area.

Kinda seems to me, as eager as some areas are to want to spend money replacing standard intersections with roundabouts. I think it makes sense for some intersections, and if it's a new road or they're completely replacing the road/intersection anyway, it's worth considering roundabouts.

I think people on planning commissions just like to follow fads, and then justify it by saying it saves them money, without telling you how much that "savings" cost. It's like my wife telling me how much money she saved by spending money on sales. I'm not sure how much it costs to maintain traffic signals, but for a fairly decent sized intersection I can imagine maybe $5-10K per year. You can buy a lot of KW Hours for > $1M.

 

[actaeon277]

Sounds like you are on the negoiating committee?

I've prepared analysis for a projects for a steel mill. And I've dug into other people's analysis to find out how they come up with the numbers.

You can quote the top of the line equipment.
Estimate all machinery only works up to 75 percent of estimated life.
Estimate the costs of replacements will skyrocket.
Estimate that the manufacturer will stop supporting the equipment after 10 years, therefore require complete replacement.
Estimate the costs of maintenance workers will go up A LOT.
Insurance for the above workers.


Then, the side that you wish to happen, well..
those workers wages will barely go up.
Parts will last forever.
Parts will be plentiful.
etc.

 

[actaeon277]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost–benefit_analysis

The value of a cost–benefit analysis depends on the accuracy of the individual cost and benefit estimates. Comparative studies indicate that such estimates are often flawed, preventing improvements in Pareto and Kaldor-Hicks efficiency. [SUP][42][/SUP] Causes of these inaccuracies include:[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]

• Over-reliance on data from past projects (often differing markedly in function or size and the skill levels of the team members)
• Use of subjective impressions in assessment
• Inappropriate use of heuristics to derive money cost of the intangible elements
• Confirmation bias among project supporters (looking for reasons to proceed)

Interest groups may attempt to include or exclude significant costs from an analysis to influence the outcome

 

[1DOWN4UP]

St.Joe county has went Roundabout Crazy.They put one at Ash and Edison which was a wise move.

 

[KMaC]

The benefits of a roundabout are traffic flow and reduced speed collisions. Intersections stop traffic and if someone blows through the light/stop sign the resulting t-bone can be fatal.
You have to try pretty hard to have a fatal accident in a roundabout, although it can be done. Two drunks hit the fountain in the center of a Carmel roundabout at 3 AM and killed themselves.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Hopefully, soon those that insist on treating a roundabout like a 4 way stop will figure it out.

 

[Lex Concord]

I agree, if there was a more visible leftist presence here to balance against the right-wing rhetoric, I would probably stick around, but it just doesn't seem to be the case. Not that I'm interested in finding an echo chamber.

Be the change you want to see in the world.

.

 

[bwframe]

Round-a-bouts were an evil plan dreamed up by the auto body shops and insurance companies.

 

[Lex Concord]

I don't think the issues dividing the libertarians and republicans at this point are quite secession and slavery extreme enough to generate that kind of voter interest in a (loosing) third party candidate.

Au contraire. This is the most important election in our lifetimes. Our way of life is at stake.

Now I have two years to write a script to randomly post that line to random INGO political threads.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

I like roundabouts. There. I said it.

They're a more sensible way to navigate road intersections than traffic signals. The biggest problems 1) people need a higher spacial IQ to "get" them than traditional traffic signal intersections. 2) They take up more space. 3) They're considerably more expensive.

Whoever designed the ones on 265 in Jeffersonville is an abject idiot. As are some of the folks driving on them. Those function so badly that the only logical conclusion is that the engineer involved was smoking weed and staring at crop circle pictures...

 

[Mongo59]

There you have it, he should have smoked crop circle pics and stared at weed...