Secession.

[Llamaguy]

Sorry, had to do it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Oh, probably not now, and probably not like this, but only sitcom characters have their lives return to status quo ante at the end of the show every time. There are people on this board who remember when the flag didn't have fifty stars on it, and I wouldn't be shocked if it has a different number by the time I get planted in the ground.

We've had states try to secede before and we'll have them secede again.

I'm sure some Roman senator sat on the veranda of his villa in Eburacum and pointed out to his friend making crazy secessionist noises that Britain had been part of the Empire for over three hundred years and always would be and this talk of pulling the legions back to Rome was just silliness.

No, we won't. The economics of it, kills the idea.
What nations would trade with such states?
How would they defend themselves?
Where would the money come from for local infrastructe?
What businesses would find, being in those states, beneficial, knowing that if they do business there, they WON'T be doing business with the rest of the US?

 

[T-Mann]

No, we won't. The economics of it, kills the idea.
What nations would trade with such states?
How would they defend themselves?
Where would the money come from for local infrastructe?
What businesses would find, being in those states, beneficial, knowing that if they do business there, they WON'T be doing business with the rest of the US?

To answer your first question.....Texas (in 2009) has the 14th largest economy in the world, ahead of Australia, Mexico, South Korea, etc. I think plenty of nations would trade with them.

Texas economy ranking in the world - Texas Economy | EconPost

Third question, the same way it does now. Taxes.

Fourth Question, well, Texas has a lot of the "black gold"....I doubt the US would cut them off completely.

As far as defending themselves....doesn't "every" Texan carry a gun? :P

I only use Texas as an example because it would be the only state I would think that could pull it off if it were allowed.

 

[Birds Away]

Why would it have to be alone? There are many like-minded people across the country. A coalition or, if you please, confederation of states might just be able to make a go of it.

 

[jedi]

Indiana has no port to speak of and would have to cross foreign land or airspace to export her products. That alone would render secession economically stupid on a monumental scale.

A state seceding is like a 12y/o kid saying he wants to leave the family.

May I present to you Indiana Burns Harbor

in NWI which is on Lake Michigan.

Burns Harbor Port Overview

 

[Darral27]

1

 

[rambone]

The only reason it "wouldn't work" is because the U.S. Federal Government is too tyrannical. Which leads us back to Square One, doesn't it?

The Americans will blockade us! Travel will be restricted because of all the Federal checkpoints! No military could survive when the Americans bring us Democracy! Who will build the roads?

 

[Tamara]

No, we won't. The economics of it, kills the idea.
What nations would trade with such states?
How would they defend themselves?
Where would the money come from for local infrastructe?
What businesses would find, being in those states, beneficial, knowing that if they do business there, they WON'T be doing business with the rest of the US?

So you are saying that the United States of America is going to last, just like it is, until the heat death of the universe? Wow. Just wow.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So you are saying that the United States of America is going to last, just like it is, until the heat death of the universe? Wow. Just wow.

Uh, what are you reading? Who said that United States would last forever?

 

[cosermann]

20 states have current sucession petitions in process. See the map and source article below:

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

White House website deluged with secession petitions from 20 states | The Daily Caller

 

[Zoub]

What businesses would find, being in those states, beneficial, knowing that if they do business there, they WON'T be doing business with the rest of the US?

They won't have to fund the coming bailout of California and Illinois, which is why Obama ran in 2008 in the first place. They knew in the 80's they would be insolvent now, the Actuaries told them this. The Daley's NEED the money.

So really, it is a cost savings. Kind of like taxation without representation. People get pissed when you mess with their kids or their rice bowl.

Also, longer lasting countries, society's, cultures tend to be of the same mind, spirit, religion and color.

 

[Mrs Evilwrench]

I signed the petition to secede. Do I really think it will happen? No, but at least I made sure my voice will be heard that I'm not happy with the status quo and I don't have to take it quietly. I am not sitting benignly at an anonymous computer whining about the state of the country. And if the Muslim brotherhood goons show up at my doorstep to "talk" to me about my insurrection, I am not afraid to defend myself and my family.

 

[dbrier]

What I find funny is that the people starting those goofy petitions aren't the governments of the states, it's the citizens.
Wouldn't the elected officials of that states need to be behind this, or do you plan to get rid of them too?

 

[Kutnupe14]

They won't have to fund the coming bailout of California and Illinois, which is why Obama ran in 2008 in the first place. They knew in the 80's they would be insolvent now, the Actuaries told them this. The Daley's NEED the money.

So really, it is a cost savings. Kind of like taxation without representation. People get pissed when you mess with their kids or their rice bowl.

Also, longer lasting countries, society's, cultures tend to be of the same mind, spirit, religion and color.

Huh? Illinois pays MORE into the federal govt than it receives... Texas, on the other hand runs on a deficit, mooching $1.40 for every dollar they pay in.

 

[Kutnupe14]

To answer your first question.....Texas (in 2009) has the 14th largest economy in the world, ahead of Australia, Mexico, South Korea, etc. I think plenty of nations would trade with them.

Texas economy ranking in the world - Texas Economy | EconPost

Third question, the same way it does now. Taxes.

Fourth Question, well, Texas has a lot of the "black gold"....I doubt the US would cut them off completely.

As far as defending themselves....doesn't "every" Texan carry a gun? :P

I only use Texas as an example because it would be the only state I would think that could pull it off if it were allowed.

Congratulations, you just nationalized (and socialized) the entire state of Texas.

Yes, Texas does have a lot of oil, but it's not Texas that owns it but private citizens. In order for your plan to work, the govt of Texas would have to nationalize the East Texas Oil Field (2nd largest in the US).

You're also disregarding that Texas' economic rank is based overwhelmingly on domestic trade with other states (which would be gone), and its military/defense industry (second largest part of its economy, also gone).
Sure Texas makes over $100+ Billion in trade with other nations, each year, but again, that's from private businesses.

Now, for Texas to see a penny of any of that money, they would either have to levy an INSANE amount of taxes on those businesses, or nationalize them. Nationalize business, and you then start socializing govt, heavily. And then one would be asking themselves "why did we leave again?"

 

[cosermann]

20 states have current sucession petitions in process. See the map and source article below:

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

White House website deluged with secession petitions from 20 states | The Daily Caller

Ok, so this is snowballing. Way over half of the Union now. See here:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions

Updated Map as of now:

 

[Birds Away]

I am not sure why if a group a states peacefully seceded it would necessarily stop trade with other states. There are a lot of assumptions on both sides.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I am not sure why if a group a states peacefully seceded it would necessarily stop trade with other states. There are a lot of assumptions on both sides.

That pesky Constitution kinda throws a wrench in the works. States can't trade independently without federal approval.

 

[Birds Away]

Why wouldn't the Federal government approve? I said in the event of a "peaceful secession".

 

[Tamara]

That pesky Constitution kinda throws a wrench in the works. States can't trade independently without federal approval.

States don't trade. Businesses within states do.