Bunnykid68
Grandmaster
It does not have to be enumerated in the Constitution for it to be a right.
Just because something is infringed upon makes it no less of a right.
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Seat Belt Exemptions
- Thread starter Whosyer
- Start date
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Just because something is infringed upon makes it no less of a right.
Bunnykid68
Grandmaster
Kids are in cars much more than they are in buses, so how can one use those stats when they are not even close to being proportionate?
A bunch of articles telling me that buses are statistically safer than passenger cars doesn't address your refusal to drive a bus that has seat belts installed.
Unless you can provide evidence that seat belts actually increase the risk of injury or death, what you have just said it this: because this is the statistically safest means of transportation (a point I am not convinced has been made due to the lack of similar baseline comparison), it's simply good enough.
Ironically enough, I'm fine with making the choice not to install seat belts based on cost effective and the return on the investment in terms of actual improvement in outcomes. What I can't stand is the dishonest refusal to come right out and say this is the main reason because I know nobody wants to be associated with the idea that people have just put a dollar on some kid's life. Nor can I tolerate the implications that seat belts make things worse without evidence to the contrary. I've seen a lot of assumptions being made about what would happen, but no hard numbers. Speculation is NOT a legitimate defense for a position.
Logical fallacy. Try again.
Bunnykid68
Grandmaster
You missed the part where someone said if the bus was on fire that the driver would not be able to help all the kids get their belts off.
Max Volume
Master
First off I will state that my seat belt is ALWAYS worn in my personal vehicle. ALWAYS.
I am in an occupation that requires the use of a company vehicle that is used to make 15 - 20 stops a day at people's homes. Often these homes are within a mile of each other or less of a distance. The previously mentioned company vehicle is plainly marked with company emblems everywhere and everyone in our service territory knows who we are. As a matter of fact I will state that every home uses our services on a daily basis.
One day as I was going about my business a flashing red and blue light appeared in my rear view mirror. I pull over with the window open and hands on the steering wheel. The LEO walks up with the usual routine and says I'm not wearing my seat belt. He looked just like Eric Estrada with the aviator sunglasses and coal black hair from the show CHIPS. I reply I am constantly stopping for my job to which he states "i know but my job is to keep you safe".
I accepted the ticket in order to deal with it away from this small penis bastard.
Now here is the kicker nobody could figure out. On the citation there were two boxes, one of which was to be checked. They were, Commercial vehicle or Personal vehicle. The dickhead checked "personal vehicle" when anybody looking at it from 300' could tell it was a commercial vehicle. I got the vehicle registration with the plate number that was plainly registered in the company's name and used it as evidence.
Long story short.... it was thrown out of court based upon:
IC 9-19-10-1
Application of chapter
(3) Is traveling in a commercial or a United States Postal Service vehicle that makes frequent stops for the purpose of pickup or delivery of goods or service.
No doubt in my mind from dealing with him and talking to those who knew him he was one of the little dick mo fo's compensating for his inadequacies.
In my 50 + years on this planet I have had damn good luck with cops but this was obviously a person with an axe to grind. After the fact I happened to talk to people who grew up with the guy since grade school who said he's always been a dick. Some were even cops.
The only other cop that was a total dick to me way back when was PROVEN to be involved in a scheme to bilk people that came about after I was given a bunch of crapola.
I am in an occupation that requires the use of a company vehicle that is used to make 15 - 20 stops a day at people's homes. Often these homes are within a mile of each other or less of a distance. The previously mentioned company vehicle is plainly marked with company emblems everywhere and everyone in our service territory knows who we are. As a matter of fact I will state that every home uses our services on a daily basis.
One day as I was going about my business a flashing red and blue light appeared in my rear view mirror. I pull over with the window open and hands on the steering wheel. The LEO walks up with the usual routine and says I'm not wearing my seat belt. He looked just like Eric Estrada with the aviator sunglasses and coal black hair from the show CHIPS. I reply I am constantly stopping for my job to which he states "i know but my job is to keep you safe".
I accepted the ticket in order to deal with it away from this small penis bastard.
Now here is the kicker nobody could figure out. On the citation there were two boxes, one of which was to be checked. They were, Commercial vehicle or Personal vehicle. The dickhead checked "personal vehicle" when anybody looking at it from 300' could tell it was a commercial vehicle. I got the vehicle registration with the plate number that was plainly registered in the company's name and used it as evidence.
Long story short.... it was thrown out of court based upon:
IC 9-19-10-1
Application of chapter
(3) Is traveling in a commercial or a United States Postal Service vehicle that makes frequent stops for the purpose of pickup or delivery of goods or service.
No doubt in my mind from dealing with him and talking to those who knew him he was one of the little dick mo fo's compensating for his inadequacies.
In my 50 + years on this planet I have had damn good luck with cops but this was obviously a person with an axe to grind. After the fact I happened to talk to people who grew up with the guy since grade school who said he's always been a dick. Some were even cops.
The only other cop that was a total dick to me way back when was PROVEN to be involved in a scheme to bilk people that came about after I was given a bunch of crapola.
6 children were killed in bus related accidents in 2010, 1,210 were killed in car accidents in 2010. If you were to figure what you would find proportionate, are cars safer?
If you break it down by the hour, there are .138 children killed per hour in car accidents a year (8760 hours).
If a child rides a bus 60 minutes a day, five days a week, 9 months a year (180 hours), that would be .033 death per hour.
I am not trying to argue, but like you, trying to figure out the safety of buses. If you see an issue with the math, please let me know, I am trying to wrap my mind around the stats as well.
I'm glad to get some confirmation on this. Thank you!
Seems like a $25 fine might be worth the risk to those so overly concerned with big brudda infringing on their right to take dangerous risks?
Curls & Swirls
Marksman
I'm not sure about the kids on all buses but I am pretty sure that my kids could unbuckle by themselves BEFORE they started school.
The seatbelt law makes me crazy because it is just more of one group thinking they know what is best for the rest and wanting their way. Kinda like a group of people that are afraid of guns so they don't think anyone should have them.
If that is true about the seatbelt laws not putting points on your license I am not going to worry much about it. I will pay the $25 fine because I really enjoy telling all the LEO that call wanting money all the time I spent their $25 donation on a seatbelt ticket we got from a motorcycle officer for my husband not wearing his seatbelt on the way to church in that heavy Sunday morning traffic. (He doesn't wear the seatbelt when he drives by suburban because the seat is broken and won't move backward and since he has trouble with his neck, the belt is very uncomfortable... Not that he is going to tell the LEO that because like me the fact that it is a law makes him mad too and he isn't going to give excuses. It is one thing if they pull you over for breaking other laws and add that in, but I fill like the LEO is just being a jerk if he pulls you over for just not wearing your seatbelt and everyone else was buckled up! Is it Serve & Protect or Serve to Collect? Hmmmm....
THISSSSSSSSSS
Curls & Swirls
Marksman
But how many kids were in how many cars for how many hours to get these numbers and then the same for the buses? (I don't think buses need belts, but I do think there is a double standard in the law) I think there is way more car rides than bus rides by kids (Not all kids ride buses. Some arrive in cars and some travel by foot, and then there are the great ones that school at home!!!
) so like with most stats they can be swayed in whatever direction you want. My 
Safety of a bus? I thought that was in one of the links I posted...
Sits higher then cars, padding in the seats, seats being closer to each other.
How about the steel cage that surrounds the fuel tank to keep it from getting damaged, double door seals to keep exhaust fumes from entering the bus... Emergency windows and roof hatches to make it easier to get out in almost situation.
By law we now have to stop at all rail road tracks (with or without students on the bus) to make sure a train is not coming, something cars do not have to do.
Sits higher then cars, padding in the seats, seats being closer to each other.
How about the steel cage that surrounds the fuel tank to keep it from getting damaged, double door seals to keep exhaust fumes from entering the bus... Emergency windows and roof hatches to make it easier to get out in almost situation.
By law we now have to stop at all rail road tracks (with or without students on the bus) to make sure a train is not coming, something cars do not have to do.
But how many kids were in how many cars for how many hours to get these numbers and then the same for the buses? (I don't think buses need belts, but I do think there is a double standard in the law) I think there is way more car rides than bus rides by kids (Not all kids ride buses. Some arrive in cars and some travel by foot, and then there are the great ones that school at home!!!
Huh?
I gave the other side the benefit of the doubt by calculating the entire year (8760 hours). That figure .138 deaths per hour is the calculation of a child being in a car the entire year (which they are not).
How often do the buses catch fire? Since people like to rely on statistics to justify the risk their kids are exposed to.
So you want to gamble the belts would make it safer and if a bus catches fire you will explain how those seat belts helped? According to this website over 2,000 bus fires a year.
http://www.americanownews.com/story...t-to-do-in-a-school-bus-fire-could-save-lives
http://youtu.be/ksXI2tK16Dg
Not sure how long the fire was going before they started recording, but at the 2 minute mark the fire department was just getting their gear ready to start putting out the fire.
No way I would be able to get kids out of a mess like that.
Last edited:
Bunnykid68
Grandmaster
From the video the driver would be burnt to a crisp. Didn't see any kids wandering around anywhere either
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