SCOTUS Strikes Down ObamaCare Individual Mandate

[Mark 1911]

Just what do you suppose "Fast & Furious" was about?

No argument here!!!!!!!

 

[Roadie]

Sure, but when they rig the system and end up only paying <15% while the middle class pays 35% it seems a bit unbalanced.

First.. How do they "rig the system"?
Second.. You consider someone that makes over $330,000/year "Middle class"?


Remember.. This is INCOME tax we are talking about, not Capital gains, Investments, etc etc..

 

[PKendall317]

Sure, but when they rig the system and end up only paying <15% while the middle class pays 35% it seems a bit unbalanced.

See, that's what I'm talking about. And remember, millionaires, billionaires, they make way more money than I'll ever hope to see in my lifetime, and in my opinion can afford to pay more than someone who makes say $35k a year.

And thank you to Roadie for answering my question. To answer your question, if I asked five different people what they considered a reasonable tax rate I'd probably get ten different answers. Some people might say 35%, others 20%, and others 40%. Ideally, smart, qualified, and competent individuals (obviously not Congress) would make this decision. Unfortunately however we don't live in a perfect world, which would also be different depending on your definition of "perfect world."

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Also, nobody answered my question. Does anyone know how Obamacare will effect business owners who currently DO NOT provid health insurance?

As a business owner - I can tell you this: It won't affect business OWNERS. If you make it more expensive to operate a business (e.g. requiring/mandating insurance) then one of these (or a combination of them) will happen. 1) less employees will be hired/less hours will be worked 2) employee take home pay will be reduced 3) prices will be raised to cover the increased cost. 4) business owner will say "screw it" and a bunch of people will be out of work.

Side effect - since the mandate specifies less than 50 employees I predict that a lot of 51st, 52nd, and 53rd employees are going to be out of work soon.

The Law of Unintended Consequences is a Beyotch...

 

[mrjarrell]

Second.. You consider someone that makes over $330,000/year "Middle class"?

I do. Lots of small business people make money in that range and higher and they are solidly in the middle class. Many middle class couples pull down that, or more and they're middle class.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

You are an intelligent poster. Please tell me you aren't joining the truther/birther/banner camp.

When asked what BHO was doing about gun control, he responded something to the effect that he was "working under the radar". Somewhere along the way too, there was the specious claim that it was the guns from the USA that was the cause of the violence in Mexico, etc...

Is it so far fetched for reasonable people to infer that these, among other actions and well known beliefs of Obama and his ilk are possibly, just possibly part of a plan to crack down on gun ownership?

 

[PKendall317]

First.. How do they "rig the system"?
Second.. You consider someone that makes over $330,000/year "Middle class"?


Remember.. This is INCOME tax we are talking about, not Capital gains, Investments, etc etc..

The majority of the people in Congress are millionaires, or at the very least make way more money than the guy who works a 9 to 5 job everyday, so some millionaires/billionaires, at least the ones that are in Congress, are in a position where they have the ability to rig the system. Factor in Wall Street, and all the various lobbyists who work for corporate interests and the interests of Wall Street, and you could argue that "they" rig the system, or at least are in a position to do so.

 

[Roadie]

See, that's what I'm talking about. And remember, millionaires, billionaires, they make way more money than I'll ever hope to see in my lifetime, and in my opinion can afford to pay more than someone who makes say $35k a year.

And thank you to Roadie for answering my question. To answer your question, if I asked five different people what they considered a reasonable tax rate I'd probably get ten different answers. Some people might say 35%, others 20%, and others 40%. Ideally, smart, qualified, and competent individuals (obviously not Congress) would make this decision. Unfortunately however we don't live in a perfect world, which would also be different depending on your definition of "perfect world."

..and as pointed out, they already DO pay more.

OK, let me address this another way..
Why should somebody that worked hard to get where they are, ie "living the American Dream" pay a higher tax rate than you do? Why should they be penalized for being successful?

How wouldn't a "flat tax" be more fair?

 

[Mark 1911]

Oh boy, back to this.

Just wait until they come for the 3rd!

I'm glad for you that you're so satisfied with Obama. I will respond more later. I didn't expect such a complacent attitude from a gunowner. Right now I have an image in my mind of someone taking a free ride on someone else's coattails, I hope for the sake of those who ARE willing to stand up for the freedom they enjoy, that I am wrong

 

[Roadie]

The majority of the people in Congress are millionaires, or at the very least make way more money than the guy who works a 9 to 5 job everyday, so some millionaires/billionaires, at least the ones that are in Congress, are in a position where they have the ability to rig the system. Factor in Wall Street, and all the various lobbyists who work for corporate interests and the interests of Wall Street, and you could argue that "they" rig the system, or at least are in a position to do so.

We arent talking about Congressmen.
(dont get me started on the irony/hypocrisy of millionaires complaining about other millionaires not paying enough)

We are talking about Private Citizens, working for a Private company.. they aren't "rigging the system". THEY are paying 35% while you and I pay 15% or less.

 

[mrjarrell]

Look, when taxes were a lot higher, back in the 50's and 60's, small businesses dealt with it ingeniously. When they came close to the magical mark that the government thought was fair, (in some cases well into the 70%+ mark) they just stopped working. My wife's grandfather, a doctor in Memphis, used to work till about Oct or November and then he'd shut his practice down for the rest of the year. His patients had to go elsewhere for care till the New Year came around. We could easily return to that, if some people had their way. Of course productivity would take a nose dive for those who made "too much" money. Take a person's incentive to produce away and they will go on strike.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I do. Lots of small business people make money in that range and higher and they are solidly in the middle class. Many middle class couples pull down that, or more and they're middle class.

Sort of depends on your point of view, doesn't it?

To some members of my family, my wife and I are rich. I'll guarantee you if I were making $330,000/year, I'd feel rich. If you took a typical guy from Mexico and gave him the salary of the family member to which I referred, I'd bet he'd.feel rich too.

 

[PKendall317]

I do. Lots of small business people make money in that range and higher and they are solidly in the middle class. Many middle class couples pull down that, or more and they're middle class.

I agree, I don't know how much my Father makes on his business but I would definately put him in this category, despite what my friends and coworkers think, who have this idea that he's a millionaire when he really isn't.

 

[PKendall317]

..and as pointed out, they already DO pay more.

OK, let me address this another way..
Why should somebody that worked hard to get where they are, ie "living the American Dream" pay a higher tax rate than you do? Why should they be penalized for being successful?

How wouldn't a "flat tax" be more fair?

Because they have the financial resources to do so. And again, I wouldn't exactly consider it a penalty. And I wouldn't have a problem with everyone regardless of income paying say 20% (hypothetically) on income tax, I could live with that. But I believe that once you start talking about millionaires and billionaires, that they should be taxed at a higher rate than people in the middle class.

 

[PKendall317]

I do. Lots of small business people make money in that range and higher and they are solidly in the middle class. Many middle class couples pull down that, or more and they're middle class.

Also, compared with the people I work with and most of his company's clientel, most of which are in the lower income bracket, my Dad who I've already stated is middle class, probably seems like Bill Gates or something to them.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

 

[PKendall317]

 

[manwithnoname]

 

[MilitaryArms]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8KQmps-Sog

 

[manwithnoname]