SBPD LEO Encounter

[StrongSide]

Find someone who knows what is going on - Then sue them.

Pathetic how many times a lawyer or lawsuit has came up in this.

 

[SideArmed]

So what part of that allows the police to stop me and ask me for my license just because I'm carrying? What probable cause do they have? NONE.

It's that part right up at the top, that I put in the quote block on the post that you then quoted. The line right there were it says, and I will quote again but add some emphasis this time:

Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body without being licensed under this chapter to carry a handgun.

Let me repeat exactly what I have already said. In Indiana, you are required to have a valid license to carry a handgun on your person.

Still with me?

The necessity of a license means it is by default illegal.

Still understanding, right?

That means, if you are seen carrying a handgun, and an officer wishes to bother you about it, he is well within his legal right to do so. Once you produce proof of a valid license you are free to be on your way.

Now, when you attempt to bring up the whole driver's license thing again, I will just laugh because it has been refuted at least twice now.

What he said ^^^

 

[Skywired]

I'm totally going to wear a Speedo from now on.

Thanks for the video............... ugh.

My work is done for the night...

 

[9mmfan]

In general, the SBPD are just an extension of the Chicago PD. They like to think of them selves as a big time police force.
I've lived in South Bend twice in my life and don't ever plan on moving back their if I can help it.

Done properly, I don't see any problem using a drop leg holster. The ones I've seen being used are generally not on correctly; usually to low on the leg. They really shouldn't be a whole lot lower than OWB carry.

Throwing insults at each other does nothing but drive us apart and give our opposition fuel for their side of the argument.

 

[Kimber]

I have a permit to carry, I live in south bend, I know where this happened, ALL THAT MATTERS IS you have a permit to carry, does not say how or where on your body.

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

Having read the entire thread I will throw in a few simple thoughts of my own.

First regarding Birdman0003's OP. My main issue with the post is that you leave out most of the details of what was said both by LE and by yourself. I get that you feel upset, but not what exactly was said by LEOs to make you upset, nor what you said in response.

If you are going to OC then you should EXPECT greater interactions from LEOs who respond to a variety of people calling in concerned. Whether or not we approve of the sheeps bleating does negate the fact that we know the sheep will bleat. As such we should be willing to accept the consequences of our actions, in this particular case an interaction with LE.

If we know we are going to interact with LE more often than other citizens by OCing then we should be very prepared and ready for such interaction. I direct you to these simple videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

The concept of OCing is a two (2) edged sword. It can beneficially and subtly educate citizens about their rights. This is a positive outcome.

It can scare citizens and invite alarmed calls to LE about the person carrying a gun. This is a negative outcome.

How we think about the benefits and pitfalls of OCing can lead us to very divergent conclusions regarding its use.

While I am personally opposed to OC I will fully support everyones right to do so. I am not extremely against it, I just question whether the positives outweigh the negatives.

I do believe that if you choose to OC then you should also be prepared to record either with video or audio recording equipment at ALL times that you OC no matter how inconvenient this is for you. In doing so you will protect yourself against the abuse the OP feels he was subjected to. While the recording may not stop the abuse it can and will be used later in any potential lawsuit, and if victorious may nudge LE and dispatch in a positive direction such as has been discussed in numerous previous posts.

While I am not a lawyer I am very certain that a lawyer would far prefer some sort of unbiased recording of the events beyond what you say happened. This gives a potential jury something to see or listen to that can refute anyones "misremembering" of exactly what occurred.

I would like to see more people OC in coordination with some sort of media campaign to bring attention to this right in a positive manner. That way the general public can be made slowly aware of their rights and of other people exercising a right that we all have. Without such education or move toward education we will remain with good, decent citizens unaware that a person with a gun is not a threat - it is only a person with a gun.

Regards,

Doug

 

[churchmouse]

I have a permit to carry, I live in south bend, I know where this happened, ALL THAT MATTERS IS you have a permit to carry, does not say how or where on your body.

That is the point we are all making. Does not matter. Just expect some un-wanted attention when you go Rambo.

 

[Bunnykid68]

That is the point we are all making. Does not matter. Just expect some un-wanted attention when you go Rambo.

He didn't go all Rambo, Rambo had a big knife

 

[churchmouse]

He didn't go all Rambo, Rambo had a big knife

I do stand corrected good sir..........................

 

[reesez]

Isn't stopping everyone to see if they are legally carrying a gun just like stopping every car just because they might not have a license to drive?

 

[Bunnykid68]

Isn't stopping everyone to see if they are legally carrying a gun just like stopping every car just because they might not have a license to drive?

No.

 

[Birdman002]

So yes this thread went downhill pretty fast.

I made this post just for everyone to see what happened to my fellow gun owners to see.

What difference does it make where i carry my handgun. No what so ever.
What difference what cloths i wear. I like my Nike boots and wear them a lot because their comfy. I wear my tan cargo pants because once again they are comfy.

What difference how I carry, where I go shop, where I walk to shop for groceries.

I took an oath to protect the Constitution which is my rights. So as a FREE American I have the right to do everything within the legal limits of the law.

Was what i did to prove I am a bad ass? No I did it because I am an American and we have freedom to have guns, dress how we want, do what we want legally. That's why.

As an update I went to the SBPD station today and they are releasing the records to me tomorrow hopefully.

Thank you, and now the interest will eat my comment alive, misconstrued it in every which way possible. This is the last I post on this thread, Feel free to make this go downhill again.

 

[CPT Nervous]

So yes this thread went downhill pretty fast.

I made this post just for everyone to see what happened to my fellow gun owners to see.

What difference does it make where i carry my handgun. No what so ever.
What difference what cloths i wear. I like my Nike boots and wear them a lot because their comfy. I wear my tan cargo pants because once again they are comfy.

What difference how I carry, where I go shop, where I walk to shop for groceries.

I took an oath to protect the Constitution which is my rights. So as a FREE American I have the right to do everything within the legal limits of the law.

Was what i did to prove I am a bad ass? No I did it because I am an American and we have freedom to have guns, dress how we want, do what we want legally. That's why.

As an update I went to the SBPD station today and they are releasing the records to me tomorrow hopefully.

Thank you, and now the interest will eat my comment alive, misconstrued it in every which way possible. This is the last I post on this thread, Feel free to make this go downhill again.

There are just some ignorant bigots on here. There's nothing wrong with the way you carry. If you're up for it, you, me and Ashley can OC rifles over there.

 

[reesez]

No.

YES. Because it is not legal to operate a motor vehicle without appropriate operators license. Same as carrying a firearm without a license. So stopping someone just because you suspect they might not have a license for driving is the same as stopping for carrying a firearm. Not to mention illegal search and seizure. You are required to detain and question when suspecting a crime being committed, then make a judgement call on whether or not to arrest and search.
Also if it were me I would have stated that "I have the proper I.D. and license to legally carry a firearm on my persons and am willing to present to you for inspection" and went from there.

 

[TTravis]

It will be interesting to see what SBPD has to say. I am disappointed in the reaction of many of our fellow INGO'ers. This has nothing to do with how you carry. We may vary in the way we see fit to carry, but we all share the same rights. We should work together to stand up for those rights. I hope SBPD apologises for the way this was handled. From what I read, you did nothing wrong. Unfortunately, I do not believe there is much you can do about the way you were treated except to learn from the experience and be better prepared for the next encounter. From the officer's perspective, I believe they wanted to intimidate you into not OC in their town. They did not accomplish that goal. The fact that you posted this will wind up being a nightmare for SBPD in ways that cannot be measured.

 

[SSGSAD]

Birdman, if you weren't 3 hours away, I would walk to the store with you, and wear MY drop leg holster.....
Why not arrange an OC event, and everyone can oc, any way they want to .....

 

[churchmouse]

So yes this thread went downhill pretty fast.

I made this post just for everyone to see what happened to my fellow gun owners to see.

What difference does it make where i carry my handgun. No what so ever.
What difference what cloths i wear. I like my Nike boots and wear them a lot because their comfy. I wear my tan cargo pants because once again they are comfy.

What difference how I carry, where I go shop, where I walk to shop for groceries.

I took an oath to protect the Constitution which is my rights. So as a FREE American I have the right to do everything within the legal limits of the law.

Was what i did to prove I am a bad ass? No I did it because I am an American and we have freedom to have guns, dress how we want, do what we want legally. That's why.

As an update I went to the SBPD station today and they are releasing the records to me tomorrow hopefully.

Thank you, and now the interest will eat my comment alive, misconstrued it in every which way possible. This is the last I post on this thread, Feel free to make this go downhill again.

It makes no difference at all. I stand for your right to do this I just prefer not to from being harassed in the past.
My Rambo comments might be off a bit but in this climate the anti's have the upper hand. If these offended I offer my apology. The whole damn world is flipping out.
Maybe I am just getting to old to push the limits these days.

 

[Jack Burton]

Isn't stopping everyone to see if they are legally carrying a gun just like stopping every car just because they might not have a license to drive?

We now know who didn't bother to read the whole thread...

 

[MikeDVB]

One question. Why the drop leg holster???????????!??????!?!?!?!?

I ordered one myself just to make the weapon more accessible when wearing a shirt+hoodie+light coat. That's a lot of cover to pull back even with a standard OWB holster.

I usually OC and winter turns most normal OC into CC.

 

[Jack Burton]

I think there should be an "open carry" day in South Bend when the weather warms up. Not a rally with everyone together, but individual parties carrying about three or four blocks apart and covering several square miles or key areas. If the PD is forced to respond to a couple of dozen calls within a two hour period and face down knowledgeable LTC holders every time (with cameras) they just may rethink how they are going to proceed for future calls.

I'd keep it on the QT and not let the world know what was going on.