SBPD LEO Encounter

[Bill B]

I hate to bring reason back to this thread, but what is are the totality of the circumstances?
Is it a high crime area? What are the demographics of the area? Does the OP fit the demographics? How many officers generally respond to calls? Potential felony calls? What was said to 911? What else was happening, crime-wise, that day? Or the last three days? How did the officers act/react to the OP?
There is so much that we don't know, and some the OP doesn't know, that it is impossible to make an informed judgement.
Look on the positive side, you weren't proned out, cuffed, stuffed in the back of a squad, had your property confiscated, etc.
From what I have heard, this encounter is an improvement for the SBPD. How the OP dresses is mostly irrelevant (some dress can be suspicious, and we all know it). How the OP carries is totally irrelevant. The only relevant part is how the officers acted and treated the OP, and that is mostly not addressed.
And before you start bashing me about not supporting OC, I have worn the silver bracelets because somebody saw my OC and was "intimidated" by it. It cost me $7500 to defend myself against an incompetent/corrupt PD and get my license back from ISP.

 

[TaunTaun]

Martin's on Ironwood is in a suburb on the south end of town, it is right on the line between Mishawaka and South Bend. It is also less than 1/4 mile from IU South Bend. Got quite a few homes in the area to the north, and lots of businesses to the South on Lincolnway a street over. The houses are older but a lot of em are still in good condition and for the most part, the people living in the area keep their yards looking nice. It's a mixed demographics area. Whites, Blacks, Latinos, and lots of college students in the area.

Now, lt sounds like it took SBPD about 6 minutes or so to respond once the call came in to dispatch. That is LIGHTNING fast for SBPD. That same call on the west side of town? Try closer to 20 to 30 minutes for a SINGLE car to show up.

 

[churchmouse]

I got accused of being a cowboy by a Goshen PD officer for simply having my sidearm in a holster on my hip at the 4 o'clock position. John Wayne-ing it as the officer put it. I'm less concerned that he was using a drop holster than the fact that SBPD went monkey-fecal matter on him.

I like the Monkey Fecal matter line. I will use this with your gracious permission.

As stated, I have been pulled off to the side of the road by LEO when cruising on my bike. 3 of the 4 incidents that come to mind were just stupid. Commentary from said LEO's will not be shared as they all appeared to be fairly new. I do not wish to incite LEO bashing as this was a long time ago. 1 time I was riding with a group and 2 were off duty LEO of significant rank. They intervened and put the officer in his place. That was fun to watch but these guy's are not always around.

More than a few times I have been spoken to at stop lights about an exposed side arm and not always by LEO. It just got old.

I gave the local LEO's enough excuses to pull me over so why add to the invitation.

I like to fly below the radar these days. Life is so much simpler.
If you guy's want to OC I am on your side but seriously, LEO will call on you when you are out in the open. Especially during this madness.

 

[churchmouse]

I hate to bring reason back to this thread, but what is are the totality of the circumstances?
Is it a high crime area? What are the demographics of the area? Does the OP fit the demographics? How many officers generally respond to calls? Potential felony calls? What was said to 911? What else was happening, crime-wise, that day? Or the last three days? How did the officers act/react to the OP?
There is so much that we don't know, and some the OP doesn't know, that it is impossible to make an informed judgement.
Look on the positive side, you weren't proned out, cuffed, stuffed in the back of a squad, had your property confiscated, etc.
From what I have heard, this encounter is an improvement for the SBPD. How the OP dresses is mostly irrelevant (some dress can be suspicious, and we all know it). How the OP carries is totally irrelevant. The only relevant part is how the officers acted and treated the OP, and that is mostly not addressed.
And before you start bashing me about not supporting OC, I have worn the silver bracelets because somebody saw my OC and was "intimidated" by it. It cost me $7500 to defend myself against an incompetent/corrupt PD and get my license back from ISP.

Bill,
I too have stood before the man on charges the were not warranted for ridiculous reasons. I had my freedom returned to me after spending far more than you did and some serious anger management which in the long run I am better off for having.
Having these experiences I choose to run grey when ever possible. I will not go through this again.

 

[TaunTaun]

You have my permission to use that line. Here are others that you may peruse....


Monkey-fecal matter
fecal matter hitting the rotary impeller
running around like a head with it's chicken cut off
cranial-rectal inversion
colder than a witch's *** in a brass bra in the middle of winter
Makesnomuchnonevermind

 

[T2D4]

anyone see this incident covered in the local media? they're usually on top of this stuff...

 

[DragonGunner]

Just how many criminals in that area who can't legally carry would actually OC to get some groceries...?....Call me stupid but one would think a criminal would be packing that heat where it couldn't be seen. SB LEO's pull up..."You got a permit for that thing?!"......."Oh, crap I don't and I forgot when I got out of the shower and went to the store and walking down this PUBLIC street that I had it where it could be seen."

 

[Bunnykid68]

Just how many criminals in that area who can't legally carry would actually OC to get some groceries...?....Call me stupid but one would think a criminal would be packing that heat where it couldn't be seen. SB LEO's pull up..."You got a permit for that thing?!"......."Oh, crap I don't and I forgot when I got out of the shower and went to the store and walking down this PUBLIC street that I had it where it could be seen."

Yep, criminals prefer to conceal carry until they need it.

 

[drillsgt]

P.s. drop leg went out of style well before the advent of the Internet.

LOL, true, I laugh when I see cops carrying with thigh holsters but i'll support anybody that wants to carry regardless of holster choice.

 

[TaunTaun]

anyone see this incident covered in the local media? they're usually on top of this stuff...

pfffffffffft! No they aren't. Newspapers and TV here have turned a blind eye to SBPD for years and years. The only reason the Clay Edinger story got so much TV time was because they were originally trying to lambast him for trying to OC at the polls.

The only negative light that I've seen shine on SBPD over the last several years is:

The obligatory mention when an officer commits a DUI. 30 second blurb for a few days and then it dissapears forever.

SBPD wiretap scandal. So many people are interested in it that it keeps it in the foreground. The council member who brought this to the attention of the DOJ, etc ended up being followed out of a council meeting and as he and his dad were driving home (seperately even), SBPD decides to pull them both over for "erratic driving".


Other than that, they walk on water...

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I see INGO hasn't evolved much lately. Still judging people by what they wear or what they believe.

There are a few lawsuits going through the system right now that should get a lot of this harrassment crap stopped.

Until then I guess we can look forward to more backward thinking progressive conservatives that want everyone to wear the same thing they do, like the same things they do and not make a fuss about a little inconvenience called our rights.

 

[bigus_D]

Please note: no rights were violated.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Please note: no rights were violated.

You need to brush up then. You are too used to living in a totalitarian society.

 

[HoughMade]

You need to brush up then. You are too used to living in a totalitarian society.

If you think this is a totalitarian society, you need to brush up on your history.

 

[Rhoadmar]

You need to brush up then. You are too used to living in a totalitarian society.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

If you think this is a totalitarian society, you need to brush up on your history.

Please, enlighten me.

 

[SideArmed]

Got it. I'm illegally carrying until I'm detained by police and my ID and LTCH are inspected. I'm also required to have insurance when I drive, gonna pull me over as an uninsured motorist until I prove otherwise? How about pulling me over on my motorcycle to check and make sure I have my endorsement? Better still, why not ask me for my building permit when I roll out of Lowe's with some lumber and screws?

I am not sure if case law has been set or not in regards to officers being legally allowed to pull someone over just to verify insurance or not, but my gut tells me that it has, or it falls under the fact that driving a vehicle is not RS enough to pull someone over on a license check.

It has been decided that driving a vehicle (motorcycles included) is not RS enough to pull you over. Try to keep up, this has been discussed numerous times in this thread.

Building permit for buying lumber?? Really? Thats not even in the ball park for comparisons.

The point is, no matter how he was carrying, his weapon was holstered. Surrounding him with guns drawn, ordering him to drop his goods, and then searching his wallet are way beyond what was necessary.

The way this should have gone is that the officer would say "excuse me, we received a call of a man matching your description carrying a weapon. Can I see your LTCH please".

See, we can get along. I agree with you there. But you are by your own addmition stating that it was ok for the police to stop him and ask for his LTCH, simply based on the fact that he was carrying a weapon.

 

[TaunTaun]

Rights being violated....like being manhandled like at a zoo by security thugs?

 

[T2D4]

Has anyone tried OCing or CCing in to the County-City Building since the new gun laws took effect (2011 I believe?). I don't recall there being specific writing on the entrance that prohibits firearms, although there are sheriffs and a metal detector at the entrance.

 

[JoshuaW]

When you find out the officers involved, please PM me if Officer Maxey was there.

I would say you should file a complaint, but they will do exactly nothing. Still worth getting it on the records though. SBPD does NOT know their gun laws, and they take OC a little to seriously.